Adding another spur to socket for lights?

[John D v2.0]

You mean can I connect another fused spur to the double socket by the back door, [...]. The answer is no, because you will then have two spurs from one socket

 

[stem]

I will have one last go at explaining. Sorry if my English isn't understandable, which is a bit worrying as my main employment these days is as a technical author.

Anyway, this is what the op has now. One spur from a socket on a ring [in the absence of other info assumed to be from a 32A MCB as is usual]



But he can't add another second spur to the existing spur.

 

[John D v2.0]

I think we all agreed on that in the first place! The only part we were correcting was to state that you can indeed spur twice off the same socket on the ring.
Hopefully the OP has finished his project by now

 

[ban-all-sheds]

In my diagram both FCU's are supplied via the same single cable originating from the socket.

Yup.

Single cable. Single spur

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But he can't add another second spur to the existing spur.

1) He might be able to, depending on spur cable size and installation method.

2) He wasn't asking about doing that:

I've got a double socket near the back door. I've already added a fused spur to it to feed and outdoor socket. Can I add another to it to run an outside light?

He wants to add a 2nd spur to the double socket near the back door.

 

[JohnW2]

2) He wasn't asking about doing that: ... He wants to add a 2nd spur to the double socket near the back door.

That's also what was my first reaction, and I still think that it's probably the most likely intended meaning. However, the "it" in the last sentence you quoted is a bit ambiguous - you and I 'assumed' (and we both know about that!) that it was a reference to the double socket, but it could mean (the supply side of) the FCU that has already been spurred from the socket.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

But he can't add another second spur to the existing spur.
View attachment 128044

To put a spanner in the works, I think everyone would agree with that because they just do, BUT

even if there were 13A fuses in both of the FCUs, that would be no different than a double socket - assuming the first bit of cable complies, which it probably would because some people believe it must be 2.5mm² connected to the ring.

 

[JohnW2]

.... BUT ... even if there were 13A fuses in both of the FCUs, that would be no different than a double socket - assuming the first bit of cable complies, which it probably would because some people believe it must be 2.5mm² connected to the ring.

Indeed - but, of course, the same is true of two single sockets (no different from two FCUs).

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, but the regulations don't say you can only have one FCU - as there aren't double ones.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, but the regulations don't say you can only have one FCU - as there aren't double ones.

True - but, as you know, nor do the regulations (as opposed to 'informative guidance') say that one can only have one single socket.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

True - but, as you know, nor do the regulations (as opposed to 'informative guidance') say that one can only have one single socket.

True but that is what people are taking as "the regulations".


So - we can design spurs however we want, then - as long as they comply with the regulations.

I look forward to some interesting discussions.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I "look forward" to the same old discussions we've had before.

 

[mwatsonxx]

I feel sorry for the forum being bored to death with johnywaffle2. Doesn't affect me, when his gob starts I'm gone, as i'm sure many others are.

 

[JohnW2]

True but that is what people are taking as "the regulations". So - we can design spurs however we want, then - as long as they comply with the regulations. I look forward to some interesting discussions.

I think we've had those 'interesting discussions', several times, including quite recently.

Provided design considerations (basically CCC) were satisfied, I would personally have no hesitation in installing two single sockets as an unfused spur from a ring final (one being 'a sopur from a spur'), and would happily argue with anyone who claimed that it was "non compliant with the regulations". Indeed, BAS even believes that we (at least I!) should not advise a DIYer that they 'may not' do such things (which are contrary to guidance in an Appendix to the regs, although not forbidden by the regs, per se)

However, as I've said, I doubt that many electricians would want the potential hassle that could possibly arise if they did these things (and that includes 1.5mm² cable feeding a single socket or FCU as an unfused spur), and therefore would 'comply' with guidance in Appendices to the regs (and would probably advise DIYers that the couldn't/shouldn't do such things). Indeed, for all I know, membership of a self-cert Scheme might require one to 'comply' with those 'informative' Appendices?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I "look forward" to the same old discussions we've had before.

For any who have not seen it, I've just repeated the bottom line of my views as expressed in the last such discussion, and I have nothing more to add.

Kind Regards, John