Adding New Kitchen Socket on the ring

[Yanni]

I would like to add a new socket in my kitchen ring and the way I want to do it ChatGPT tells me is not the correct way!

Can you please assist.

So I have an existing socket with IN and OUT.
I am proposing to add wagos in the back of the existing socket and bypass the IN from the old socket and go straight to the new socket by extending the cable.
Then bring it back and connect the OUT from the new socket it to the old socket while leaving the old OUT cable from the existing old socket connected to the old socket. To my mind this way I maintain the ring.

But ChatGPT says:
You may use Wagos in a back box ONLY if:

• They remain accessible (i.e., under a socket faceplate)
• They do not break the ring or reroute it unnecessarily

Your idea breaks the normal ring topology and introduces a figure-8 loop, which is not compliant with BS7671.

You're effectively removing the existing socket from the ring, passing the circuit to the new socket, then returning to the old socket. That creates extra connections and can cause:

• Multiple joints inside back boxes
• Confusion about where the ring continuity actually is
• Higher chance of loose connections and overheating

So what is the proper way of doing this. The socket will be 1m to the right of the existing socket so I do not want to chisel the wall from up to down rather going across from the left to the right.

 

[thomp1983]

If it's definitely a ring then you remove one cable from the existing socket, extend that to the new socket then run a new cable between the new socket and the old socket.

It would be better if you could replace the cable your extending with wago's but that isn't always practical, if the back box is less than 35mm deep your probably going to find dressing all the wiring in neatly a challenge.

 

[EFLImpudence]

If the socket is definitely on a ring, then just add a spur - connect a third cable to the socket and run it to the new socket.

 

[Yanni]

I cannot extend the existing ring without using wagos. The cable will not reach and is a solid wall. Also I am trying to not have a spur either, my dryer does not draw much electricity right now but If I rent the property out in the future I wont know what the tenant might connect into it.

My issue is not the space behind the socket either as i can chisel the socket out and make it deeper and use a deeper box, no problem. The issue I have is that it seems I am not allowed to use wagos behind an existing socket according to UK regulations I guess. Alternatively I can add a blank box right above the old socket and do all the wago connections in there so I can have access with a blanking plate so none of the sockets have wagos behind them. what do you think?.

 

[thomp1983]

What regulations do you think stop you having wago's behind a socket?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Also I am trying to not have a spur either, my dryer does not draw much electricity right now but If I rent the property out in the future I wont know what the tenant might connect into it.

Why do you think it makes a difference?
They can only plug in what can be plugged in.

If you are really bothered, use 4mm² for the spur.

The issue I have is that it seems I am not allowed to use wagos behind an existing socket according to UK regulations I guess.

No such rule.

 

[Yanni]

" it breaks the normal ring topology and introduces a figure-8 loop, which is not compliant with BS7671"

 

[thomp1983]

Stop using chatgpt it's wrong.

Wago's behind a socket are fine as they are still accessible and where you'd expect to find connections, they need to be in a maintenance free box when they are going to be inaccessible such as plastered into a wall or buried under a floor.

EFLI's suggestion of a spur in 4mm is probably the easiest way to go and removes the need for wago's at all.

 

[EFLImpudence]

" it breaks the normal ring topology and introduces a figure-8 loop, which is not compliant with BS7671"

Not if you do it properly.

 

[davelx]

" it breaks the normal ring topology and introduces a figure-8 loop, which is not compliant with BS7671"

ChatGPT often doesn't know what it is talking about. In fact it doesn't know anything, it just reformats stuff it finds online without having any idea if the information is accurate. It certainly does NOT understand what it is "reading", nor can it make intelligent extrapolations from that information. Do not rely on it for advice about something that could kill you if done incorrectly (though that's unlikely in this case).

A spur is ONE additional cable, from a socket or junction box that is on the ring, to the spurred socket. It does not break the ring, nor does it introduce a figure of 8 - how could it? Try drawing it out!

 

[Yanni]

ChatGPT often doesn't know what it is talking about.

Haha ok. Let’s forget chatGPT then if I am allowed to do this then I will go with that

Here is a drawing of what i want to do.

 

[thomp1983]

Everyone is aware of what you want to do and it is ok to do it that way, but it's easier and uses less cable and connections to do it as a 4mm spur