I am currently re-furbishing my kitchen and trying to bring the electrics in line with the regs. On one wall there is a double socket spurred from a cooker switch. A double oven was previously re-position on the opposite side of the kitchen and the cable clipped to the base units all the way round, ending in a JB for attachment to the oven unit itself. I have moved the cooker switch to be adjacent to the oven housing (outside) with buried conduit into the oven housing (cable round the kitchen now in trunking attached to the wall), with the intention of wiring the oven unit directly into the switch. Where the original cooker switch was a I have used a heavy duty chock block for connecting the cooker cable through, and put a blanking plate on the box. On the other end of the same wall there us a double socket. I was intending to spur off this socket to provide an under worktop socket for the washing machine (which was originally also supplied from the cooker circuit), however, much to my surprise I found THREE cables, all coming down the wall. Where the third cable goes to I have no idea as there are no other spurred outlets in the vicinity. Advice please..
Adding new socket in kitchen
- Thread starter DBbyD
- Start date
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If you find three cables in a socket box then it is most likely that you have two sides of a ring (or a radial in/out) plus a spur.
If you isolate the circuit you should be able to identify the ring ends with a continuity test of each conductor, and you should find the spur has no continuity, except possibly through the CPC (earth) if there is supplementary bonding on it.
If you disconnect the "spur" cable and put the cores into a choc block for the moment, you should find (1) that the spare cable is dead (2) that something else is also dead, which is probably the spur.
Your existing installations sounds pretty shaky to me. Are you working from a book?
As you probably know, kitchen installations are subject to inspection by your local council's building control officer (unless they are done and documented by a suitably qualified electrician who is a member of a self-certification scheme).
Consider the merits of chasing round the room for your ring (or radial) to be rerun new, and removing the old if it is in a muddle. as you mention socket cables coming down the wall I gather you have a concrete floor. A ring can readily be extended with the use of a dual box.
If you isolate the circuit you should be able to identify the ring ends with a continuity test of each conductor, and you should find the spur has no continuity, except possibly through the CPC (earth) if there is supplementary bonding on it.
If you disconnect the "spur" cable and put the cores into a choc block for the moment, you should find (1) that the spare cable is dead (2) that something else is also dead, which is probably the spur.
Your existing installations sounds pretty shaky to me. Are you working from a book?
As you probably know, kitchen installations are subject to inspection by your local council's building control officer (unless they are done and documented by a suitably qualified electrician who is a member of a self-certification scheme).
Consider the merits of chasing round the room for your ring (or radial) to be rerun new, and removing the old if it is in a muddle. as you mention socket cables coming down the wall I gather you have a concrete floor. A ring can readily be extended with the use of a dual box.
What you appear to be suggesting is that I extend the ring from the other side of the kitchen to take in the double socket currently fed from the cooker supply and the new socket for the washing machine and leave the cooker supply dedicated to the double oven. Leave the doubel socket with its spur well alone. Is this correct? There dooesn't seem much point in chasing all round the kitchen as it will all be behind units. Yes, I have read with interest numerous postings about Part P.
1) I would leave the cooker circuit to the cooker
2) I would try to understand what the socket-and-spur is doing, but not spur off it again. I might extend the ring from that position though if it was convenient.
3) I would extend the ring, chasing into the wall say, 150mm above worktop height and putting in plenty of sockets and FCUs in a row, on both sides of the kitchen. IMO this is more sensible than running the cable under the worktop, then popping up again at frequent intervals to your sockets and switches. Kitchens need a lot of outlets. This way is economical on time and materials; easy to break into if you later find you need another socket, amd the cable run is fairly obvious.
2) I would try to understand what the socket-and-spur is doing, but not spur off it again. I might extend the ring from that position though if it was convenient.
3) I would extend the ring, chasing into the wall say, 150mm above worktop height and putting in plenty of sockets and FCUs in a row, on both sides of the kitchen. IMO this is more sensible than running the cable under the worktop, then popping up again at frequent intervals to your sockets and switches. Kitchens need a lot of outlets. This way is economical on time and materials; easy to break into if you later find you need another socket, amd the cable run is fairly obvious.
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JD Many thanks for your reply. I have solved the mystery of the spur - it is for the heating system (water circ. pump, clock and hot air blower unit), across the hall from the kitchen, which operates via a fused switch on the end of the spur.
The most convenient would be to extend the ring from the double socket with this spur, chaising across horizontally, as you suggest, to incorporate an FCU for the washing machine and connect up the double socket currently wired to the cooker supply cable. This assumes its acceptable to use a connector in the double box to extend one of the cables to the FCU, as the existing cable wouldn't reach?
The most convenient would be to extend the ring from the double socket with this spur, chaising across horizontally, as you suggest, to incorporate an FCU for the washing machine and connect up the double socket currently wired to the cooker supply cable. This assumes its acceptable to use a connector in the double box to extend one of the cables to the FCU, as the existing cable wouldn't reach?
I didn't follow your description.
By extending the ring, I mean taking the "left hand" ring cable from your existing box, and running it off to the left, in a loop, then bringing it back and connecting it to the "right hand" ring cable. Along this loop you can fit additional sockets and FCUs that will be useful in a kitchen.
The left and right hand cables must not be connected except through this loop.
One convenient way to do this is to take out the existing socket, and fit a "dual box". This is a box that takes two single outlets - be they sockets, FCUs, switches or any combination. It is just a little wider than the box for a double socket. With outlets of the same brand it looks neat and inconspicuous (better with square-edged accessories than with rounded-corner ones.
Have i described this well enough?
By extending the ring, I mean taking the "left hand" ring cable from your existing box, and running it off to the left, in a loop, then bringing it back and connecting it to the "right hand" ring cable. Along this loop you can fit additional sockets and FCUs that will be useful in a kitchen.
The left and right hand cables must not be connected except through this loop.
One convenient way to do this is to take out the existing socket, and fit a "dual box". This is a box that takes two single outlets - be they sockets, FCUs, switches or any combination. It is just a little wider than the box for a double socket. With outlets of the same brand it looks neat and inconspicuous (better with square-edged accessories than with rounded-corner ones.
Have i described this well enough?
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