Adding round pin sockets to existing lighting circuit

[Triffle]

Hi all, I've been enjoying reading these forums on-and-off for a while but thought I'd sign up to ask a question so please be gentle...

... I've recently discovered the concept of round-pin lighting sockets (I read about them on a thread on here actually!) such as these ones:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-logic-plus-1-gang-5a-unswitched-round-pin-plug-socket-white/11412

And I'm thinking I'd like to add them into a room we're currently doing up, so that we could have some table lamps all operated from a light switch.

Now... at the moment the room in question has a single light switch which operates a ceiling light (of of them 5-bulb ones, if it matters). We're going to be redecorating the room, putting down a carpet, doing some remedial plastering etc. to the room so I thought if we're going to add some of these sockets, now would be the time to do it.

But... I'm possibly having a dense moment as I can't think how I would add these onto the existing lighting circuit. We would want to keep the ceiling light and have the table lamps operated separately. So we would need to replace the single switch with a double switch... and then what? Cable from the ceiling light down to the new switch and then to the new sockets, or cable from the ceiling light to the new sockets and then to the switch, or what?

Am I right in thinking we need to first establish what sort of lighting circuit is in the room? (I expect you shall want photos ) but even just an overview of, in general, what would be involved would be much appreciated.

That is, of course, if it is even possible to do what I'm proposing? *fingers crossed*

 

[Taylortwocities]

I hope you know that the lights will require a live and a neutral (plus an earth). Many light switches do not have a neutral. So…

How you wire it will depend on how your lighting circuit is configured.
Your starter question for 10…
Is it looped at the ceiling rose, or at the switch?

 

[AndyPRK]

It’s a room on the ground floor with no access to a loft above ?

Yeah the nice way is to run a cable or 2 to the ceiling light. But if it’s an old house probably not practical.

If there are some neutrals joined in the switch back box, the jobs quite easy.

 

[Triffle]

I hope you know that the lights will require a live and a neutral (plus an earth). Many light switches do not have a neutral. So…

How you wire it will depend on how your lighting circuit is configured.
Your starter question for 10…
Is it looped at the ceiling rose, or at the switch?

I knew you'd want pictures! Right, here is a pic of the light switch (we turned the leccy off first of course):

We can't get up on a ladder today to check the ceiling light but based on this I'd say we have "loop in" ceiling rose wiring, would that be right?

And... would the black cable shown here, be switched live rather than neutral?

So... is wiring the round pin socket, akin to wiring a new ceiling rose? i.e. take the lighting cable (twin and earth) from the existing ceiling rose to the new socket, then twin and earth from that to the new switch? How do we add several round pin sockets? In sequence? Is there a limit (we're thinking 2 or 3 max)?

Or... based on my photo, is it going to be harder than I hoped?

 

[Triffle]

It’s a room on the ground floor with no access to a loft above ?

Yeah the nice way is to run a cable or 2 to the ceiling light. But if it’s an old house probably not practical.

If there are some neutrals joined in the switch back box, the jobs quite easy.

Just saw your post after I hit send on my reply!

It is a ground floor room with no rooms above (single storey part of house). Might be possible to get into the loft void there but we've never tried (there is a loft hatch in the adjoining room).

It is an old house (stone built, lath-and-plaster walls in this room).

We don't know (at this point in time at least) what route the existing cabling takes from switch to ceiling rose. (Knowing this house, it could go anywhere)...

 

[Taylortwocities]

We can't get up on a ladder today to check the ceiling light but based on this I'd say we have "loop in" ceiling rose wiring, would that be right?

And... would the black cable shown here, be switched live rather than neutral?

We’d need to see the wiring at the Rose. It may be loop in there, but there is another option that was used in older houses. That used a big junction box, hidden somewhere. You may need access up there.

And yes, the black is switched live.

So... is wiring the round pin socket, akin to wiring a new ceiling rose? i.e. take the lighting cable (twin and earth) from the existing ceiling rose to the new socket, then twin and earth from that to the new switch? How do we add several round pin sockets? In sequence? Is there a limit (we're thinking 2 or 3 max)?
?

Essentially yes. But let’s see where the feed actually is first. Adding more sockets from the first is easy, and you can have several.

 

[ericmark]

I am in a similar position, want extra lights, no neutral at switch, no access above ceiling rose, so I have fitted a remote controlled light switch and remote controlled 13A sockets and plugged up-lighters into the sockets so I can with the remote control select the lights I want, I selected same system as used for central heating, so same app on phone, same hub, and same web page on PC controls lights and heating. I used Energenie MiHome because it pairs with Nest and it does not need a neutral in the light switch.

However not all plain sailing, 5 light switches fitted, 4 worked A1 5th required a load capacitor fitting in the ceiling rose. Also they are deeper than standard light switches one was simple swap, but 4 needed spacers behind switch to give extra room, same with sockets one or two were quick swaps, but some again needed spacers.

Also with price of hub not cheap, I have 17 devices on one hub, but if you don't have a hub, then first switch is expensive, they will work without the hub with a remote control, but not to phone or PC.

I would look at central heating as I think a few use same hub, so even if not now, in the future would you buy Hive, Nest, EvoHome, Tado or other, as may use same hub, I think so don't need a hub, but can't say which.

 

[Triffle]

We’d need to see the wiring at the Rose. It may be loop in there, but there is another option that was used in older houses. That used a big junction box, hidden somewhere. You may need access up there.

And yes, the black is switched live.


Essentially yes. But let’s see where the feed actually is first. Adding more sockets from the first is easy, and you can have several.

Ah.. thanks. We (well, hubby not me haha) will try to get up into the loft as soon as, and see what's going on up there.

I am in a similar position, want extra lights, no neutral at switch, no access above ceiling rose, so I have fitted a remote controlled light switch and remote controlled 13A sockets and plugged up-lighters into the sockets so I can with the remote control select the lights I want, I selected same system as used for central heating, so same app on phone, same hub, and same web page on PC controls lights and heating. I used Energenie MiHome because it pairs with Nest and it does not need a neutral in the light switch.

However not all plain sailing, 5 light switches fitted, 4 worked A1 5th required a load capacitor fitting in the ceiling rose. Also they are deeper than standard light switches one was simple swap, but 4 needed spacers behind switch to give extra room, same with sockets one or two were quick swaps, but some again needed spacers.

Also with price of hub not cheap, I have 17 devices on one hub, but if you don't have a hub, then first switch is expensive, they will work without the hub with a remote control, but not to phone or PC.

I would look at central heating as I think a few use same hub, so even if not now, in the future would you buy Hive, Nest, EvoHome, Tado or other, as may use same hub, I think so don't need a hub, but can't say which.

We're definitely not into 'smart home' technology and prefer wired/traditional things rather than remote controlled stuff and apps. Everyone's different so no, we won't either now or in the future be buying any of that sort of thing.

Plus our 1950s Rayburn probably wouldn't work too well with one of these hub things...

 

[AndyPRK]

Looks mid 70s to me. We’re they doing octopus then ?

 

[ericmark]

Son has 1950's rayburn, two 12 volt pumps to circulate water around the boat, and thermostats everywhere so if it gets close to overheating water diverted to a radiator welded to hull to cool down the water, all controlled with a PLC i.e. solid state electronics. OK because with the boat the header tank has not got much head pumps are important, that important there are two one as back up. But just because it's old does not mean can't have technology to control it.

 

[Triffle]

Looks mid 70s to me. We’re they doing octopus then ?

What is mid 70s - the light switch / wiring? (Because it has green rather than green-and-yellow earth sleeving?)

What is octopus EDIT: is it the other lighting system mentioned by Taylortwocities?

I'm eager to learn all these things so hopefully I'm not asking too many questions..

 

[AndyPRK]

Yeah cuz it has green sleaving.

An octopus is a large junction box in the roof where all the light switches and lights connect to.

 

[Triffle]

Apologies for taking so long to get back on this thread, loft access above the room in question has proved more difficult than expected so my husband hasn't been able to get up there.

We have managed to get a photo of the wiring at the light fitting itself:

Does this help clarify things?

 

[AndyPRK]

1 grey cable coming out of the ceiling ?

There is either a small junction box in the ceiling, or the octopus design. (large central junction)

If you can't get into the roof, or the rooms are tall, you may want to consider another way, i.e doing it with the floor boards up.

Although not a fan this, this is an alternative way of doing it:

1. Locate a power supply under the floor.
Find a socket, that is close to where you want the light switch.
Either run a cable into the back of it, or fit a junction box on the cables coming out of it.
Fit a fuse unit (at approx the height of your sockets) below the light switch. Use a 25mm or ideally 35mm box. This fuse unit should be fitted with 3A or 5A fuse. Run the cable from the socket into this.

2. I would be tempted to fit a second light switch below your existing switch or to the side of it.

For each of these 5A outlets, do you want them switched seperatly or all on together? and how many?

If you want 1 switch to turn on all 5A sockets, then you could use the existing light switch box, and just change the front as you say.

If you want 2 or 3 switches to turn on the 5A sockets individually, then there will be too many wires going in, and you should fit a seperate switch box (to the side or below ) existing switch. Fit a 25mm back box

3. Run 1mm (or 1.5mm if you have some already) cable from the new switch, out to the 5A sockets

Please look at "safe zones". This basically means cables hidden in walls should be run vertically or horizontally, from a visible electrical item. So please follow this when installing cables. (useful to know when drilling walls, so you avoid cables)

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

We can't get up on a ladder today to check the ceiling light but based on this I'd say we have "loop in" ceiling rose wiring, would that be right?

No, I would make a guess at a joint box having been used, rather than a loop in system - judging by the red, black and the dark green earth sleaving plus the older style switch. If there is no loop in at the ceiling rose, then you need to track down the location of that joint box.