Advice - Leaky Valliant 242 boiler

[dfarry]

Hi there

I'd appreciate some advice before I start ringing around different plumbers for quotes.

I have a 10 year old Valliant 242 combi installed in our home... I'm also guilty of never having it serviced!!

Still for the past 10 years it has given us good service and been very reliable.

However it has now developed a small leak from what seems to be an expansion tank for the cold water/domestic hot water system. (this is black chamber on the left of the boiler). I can't see exactly where the leak is but it could be from the upper feed pipe that goes into the top corner of the tank... or from what i assume is a gasket that goes around the top of the tank itself. The top part of the tank is heavily scaled and the leak must have been there for some time I think.

Is this a fairly common fault?... would it be fairly easy to fix? any idea of part prices... and the likely time to fit should I get a plumber into do it.

Also the water temperature dial will not turn... not a major problem but it would be nice to be able to change this again.

Then I am thinking.... 10 year old boiler...no servicing... what else might be wrong....or go wrong soon...... should I possibly replace it completely.

At the tiome the boiler cost about £500... is that still around the going rate for a combi boiler. It was fitted with the Central Heating installation, but the boiler itself didn't take very long to commission really by the fitter. Assuming a new boiler would fit directly into place with the same piping connections do you think a straight swap would be fairly simple (and cost too much as well)

Thanks for your help.

 

[kevplumb]

the bit that is leaking is the domestic hot water heat exchanger common fault

cant get them but a conversion kit is available

as for the temp knob they alwats seize try removing it while the water is off ond drop it in some descaler

if not renew it

dont expect change out of 200 smackers

 

[dfarry]

Hi there...thanks for replying...

Realistically do you think shelling out £200 on a 10 year old boiler is worth doing... how much would perhaps a more efficient model be now with fitting... £600 perhaps including fitting....

I say efficient too because we seem to be using a horrendously large amount of gas... our gas bill in recent years has gone through the roof and I wonder if the boiler might be at fault.

We have a small 3 bed end of terrace house...the valliant is a 80000bhu? boiler I think...loft insulated, double glazed, barlo rad, thermo valves...etc but the house never really feels really warm...maybe the installation and boiler were flawed from the beginning

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

£600 perhaps including fitting....

Back here on planet earth we have part L of the building regs.
This means that an installer can no longer just replace a boiler, He has to make it comply with the new regs entailling fitting a SEDBUK A or B rated boiler, room stat, fitting TRV's to at least the bedroom rads, registering it with the local authority or getting it passed by building control yourself which alone could be up to [corgi tell us] £300. Please dont be shocked when I tell you to double treble or even quadruple or more your estimate depending where you live, who you ask and what the job entails

PS I forgot to mention about flushing the old system out properly to BS 5449 or your new boiler guarantee wont be worth more than its value in toilet roll. Last I heard - British gas charge £580 for a powerflush but you will get cheaper if you shop around

 

[dfarry]

Ah yes that absolutely stupid rule that supposedly prohibs any "extensive" work unless it is carried out by a registered trades person who can certify the work... potential wiring in a new electrical extension would be counted....

Personally I think the whole thing is madness and nothing more than a money spinner for local authorities (and the trade perhaps... though I guess that may not have had much input into the rulings)

I don't really know much about it so I shouldn't be judgemental... but how on earth can a "quadrupling" in price be justified!

...thanks for your comments by the way slugbaby...I appreciate you pointing the regs as I had forgotten about them.

 

[bripl]

more work equals more money the amount you mentioned would not even buy a decent boiler let alone flue/timeclock/update controls/flush/let alone the work involved in repositioning it if will not comply with current legislation slugs comment is not that far off the mark

 

[dfarry]

Hmmm..

Ok..thanks for that...

forgetting the money thing for as moment then...

Can you (or anyone else) suggest a boiler... that is reasonable quality, good value for money and is likely to require much additional pipework from the Valliant? (assuming you guys know about the specific models).

Cheers

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

Just for a laugh get a quote from British gas. Bear in mind that they will work by the book and the job they do should be spot on but pricewise this is normally your worst case scenario.
Then when you get a price from a smaller reputable local firm it wont be so much of a shock

(I think the whole thing is madness and nothing more than a money spinner for local authorities and the trade perhaps... though I guess that may not have had much input into the rulings)

I agree and sympathise to a great extent. I could sit here and tell you about how much Ive spent lately on courses and the fact that they only last 5 years, how much they cost and the time and money I could have made while doing the courses. I am dismayed that the advanced craft certificate in hot and cold water, gas and oil that I got back in 1982 doesnt qualify me as a competent person anymore, yet when I got it I was told that it lasted indefinitely! Its a great debate that everyone is talking about right now.
We can whinge on about it as long as we like but we have to live with these laws which are there to cut down on Cowboys, save energy and provide a SAFE comfortable living environment.

My advice which is what you came here for and I give alongside any other advice you may be given is to get quotes for repair and renewal then do your sums and work it out on a projected cost per year basis taking into account the following factors:-

Repair
What is likely to go wrong next ?
How long is it likely to last before something else goes wrong?
Repair cost?
Am I throwing good money after bad?


Renewal
If the boiler lasts for say 10 yrs what is the cost per year?
Anticipate repair costs. [Newer boilers have more complex things to go wrong in them and dont have the design lifespan of your existing boiler]
Projected fuel savings [url]www.boilers.org.uk [/url]
Are there any grants available?




Whenever I go to a boiler that hasnt been serviced or checked for years I often find that the bills are over £100 more, sometimes even more than this a year than what was expected. This is because un-serviced boilers are a lot less efficient as they dont burn the gas properly. Just like driving a car with the choke out or a dirty air filter. Think of the money you may have thrown away that could have went towards a new boiler

If you do decide to renew make sure that whoever you get to do it complies with all the regs, boiler interlock TRVS correct flushing of system etc. Read up on it so you know they are doing the job properly.Cheapest isn't always best. You should also get a certificate of compliance from corgi after the work is done.

Consider other energy saving measures such as cavity wall and top up loft insulation as well as TRV's on the rads that dont have to have them.
They always pay for themselves and will eventually soothe the sting that you are about to feel in your pocket

 

[DP]

I would say you are crackers to replace the excellent boiler. You will be hard pushed to get a decent boiler that will last 10 years that the 242 has been going for.

Decent thing to do would be replace the hot water heat exchanger and a full service. Look after the boiler and it will easily run for another 10. You will be hard pushed to find another boiler with the build quality of the 242. HE is made of titanium. Do a search and see if a modern boiler has a titanium HE

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

Can you (or anyone else) suggest a boiler... that is reasonable quality, good value for money and is likely to require much additional pipework from the Valliant? (assuming you guys know about the specific models).

First of all I would like to make clear that I think you should repair it however if you want my answer to your question read on

Everyone has their own favourite of a suitable replacement based on their own experience. Ill put my fave at the bottom of this post in small writing so I don't get slated too much. My personal experience of these is that every single one I have fitted I have never been called back to, they are as cheap as chips compared to other boilers and theres lots of em about so there should be good parts availability. Fitting wise they can be a little difficult to hang and the condensate trap can be hard to connect to.
Whatever you do chose be sure it meets your needs
If you are looking for one that will 'go straight in' then I suggest you have a look round a few makers or suppliers websites to find the nearest as unless aesthetic properties need to be a part of the equation I just alter the pipework to suit.

That boilers.org.uk link I gave in the last post will point you to the most environmentally friendly if you have a click about





ravenheat

 

[kevplumb]

 

[dfarry]

Cheers for the comments...all noted

...I'll get the quotes and then go from there... and will also check those links.

I'm just wary of someone coming in and saying you need this, that and the other...to be honest if the cost is that high I might just have to make do with what I've got!

In terms of efficiency... our double glazing is not not great and probably be replaced this year... loft insulation is that horrible powerdry loose papery stuff... so I might replace that with the usual insulation.

Everytime the hot water is used a few drips of water are lost from the boiler... so a bowl is looking after that at the moment... this is also affecting the pressure (I thought the pressure gauge only reflected the heating pressure of the boiler?).

All the radiators have been bled in recent weeks but one or two of the radiators (usually furthest from the boiler) are only warm...as are the flow pipes. Some of the radiators have never been that great really and I should have called the fitter back really I guess... playing around with the valves (restricting flow) from the radiator seems to help a little bit...maybe there is a flow issue (boiler pump, pipe scaling) or the boiler is not generating enough hot water to heat the whole system....7 radiators (2 are twins).....all radiators (except for bathroom) have TRV's, two of these have failed during the past ten years and I have replaced them with better (they don't seem to cut out the flow so soon) one's myself.

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

Heres a couple of tips on how to do it on a budget. Dont tell anyone Shhhhhhh
If you can identify the parts you are likely need you can often get stuff at a fraction of the normal cost from ebay. If theres no parts available send an email to those who sell them asking if they can get hold of them for you.
Call up a local gas parts supplier and ask if they can recommend anyone. They generally know who buys what , who has a clue about what they are doing, who does and doesnt overcharge etc and if you are nice to them they should point you to a good value for money competent engineer.
Thats how I get some of my work

 

[dfarry]

Sounds like a plan...cheers Slug

 

[DP]

No way is the boiler undersized for heating rads. It is more a commissioning issue (lack of) that is giving you tepid rads.

You could look in Yellow Pages and locate an engineer who will be able to repair the boiler. Give the 0800 a wide berth as often these numbers reach a call center.

Where are you. If Glasgow, might be able to assist.