alarm wiring

[mattux]

hi guys

im moving into a new house and want to hard wire an alarm, but im unsure of what i can and cant have and need a little advice please.

what i want to be able to do is:-

1)be able to disable ir sensors and just have door/window sensors on.
2)be able to isolate certain rooms ir sensors.
3)if alarm is activated be able to ring a couple of phone numbers.
4)if alarm is activated turn on security lights at rear of house.

is every contact/sensor a radial back to the panel?
or are they daisy chained?

im looking at the Texecom Premier range, can anyone recommend these?

any links/info much appreciated

cheers

matt

 

[andy]

hi guys

im moving into a new house and want to hard wire an alarm, but im unsure of what i can and cant have and need a little advice please.

what i want to be able to do is:-

1)be able to disable ir sensors and just have door/window sensors on.
2)be able to isolate certain rooms ir sensors.
3)if alarm is activated be able to ring a couple of phone numbers.
4)if alarm is activated turn on security lights at rear of house.

is every contact/sensor a radial back to the panel?
or are they daisy chained?

im looking at the Texecom Premier range, can anyone recommend these?

any links/info much appreciated

cheers

matt

its often easier to put each device on its own zone. in that case, every device has a cable back to the panel. if you want 2 or 3 (or more) devices on a zone, they are wired in series thru each other. for 1 and 2 disabling zones is done thru the panel. you have full set (everything) and some have 2 part sets altho m not sure about panel your lookin at. to be able to dial certain people, i think you need a seperate unit what connects to the panel for this.

for lighting, this could be wired thru relays/contactors from the panel which would switch power to the lights

 

[mattux]

thanks for the info andrew

so i guess that each room will have 2 zones.
1 zone for contacts and 1 zone for ir sensors so they can be isolated.
its becoming a little clearer now

do you know of any alarm related websites

cheers

matt

 

[andy]

thanks for the info andrew

so i guess that each room will have 2 zones.
1 zone for contacts and 1 zone for ir sensors so they can be isolated.
its becoming a little clearer now

do you know of any alarm related websites

cheers

matt

why bother with door conacts on internal doors? just have a PIR. only use contacts on external doors.


as for sites, click here orhere

 

[breezer]

not quite true sorry.

8 core alarm cable is quite common, so you can loop from one pir ro the other, giving you 3 pir's on one cable )two for each, and two for power
each will still inidcate separt;y at the panel (this only complies if a resister based detection system is used (menvier can do this)

Also if an ADE karizma panel is used you can have up to 30 devices on ONE four core cable as each device has to have a "biscuit" installed in it which tells the panel which one is doing what.

I would not recomend doing that mind, but yes it can be done, one cable / device is much better.

Contacting windows is:
1) pain in the butt
2) time consuming to do
3) you see a cable on each window (usually, unless you want to chase the wall)
4) pointless
5) expensve for all windows

a Pir will cover a whole room, a contact on a window only covers just the one window to whic it is fitted. You can get vibration sensors and fit those to the window, but they too have their problems
1) pain in the butt
2) time consuming to do
3) you see a cable on each window (usually, unless you want to chase the wall)
4) pointless
5) expensve for all windows
6) if the window is struck by a ball or bird alarm goes off,(they detect vibration so are doing what they are supposed to do) yes you can adjust sensativity, but then they are not sensative enough

What do you do when alarm goes wrong? (yes you can ask here, but that isntgoing to fix it)

i would suggest that you get several quotes from alarm comanies they can then either supply a speach dialer, or connect to an alarm receiving centre, and when it goes wrong you call them

 

[mattux]

not quite true sorry.

8 core alarm cable is quite common, so you can loop from one pir ro the other, giving you 3 pir's on one cable )two for each, and two for power
each will still inidcate separt;y at the panel (this only complies if a resister based detection system is used (menvier can do this)

Also if an ADE karizma panel is used you can have up to 30 devices on ONE four core cable as each device has to have a "biscuit" installed in it which tells the panel which one is doing what.

I would not recomend doing that mind, but yes it can be done, one cable / device is much better.

Contacting windows is:
1) pain in the butt
2) time consuming to do
3) you see a cable on each window (usually, unless you want to chase the wall)
4) pointless
5) expensve for all windows

a Pir will cover a whole room, a contact on a window only covers just the one window to whic it is fitted. You can get vibration sensors and fit those to the window, but they too have their problems
1) pain in the butt
2) time consuming to do
3) you see a cable on each window (usually, unless you want to chase the wall)
4) pointless
5) expensve for all windows
6) if the window is struck by a ball or bird alarm goes off,(they detect vibration so are doing what they are supposed to do) yes you can adjust sensativity, but then they are not sensative enough

What do you do when alarm goes wrong? (yes you can ask here, but that isntgoing to fix it)

i would suggest that you get several quotes from alarm comanies they can then either supply a speach dialer, or connect to an alarm receiving centre, and when it goes wrong you call them

No internal doors are to be alarmed.
everything is chased, there are no visible wires.
if i have no contacts i cant have any protection through the night, or am i missing something?
i have quotes from installers but they are far too expensive compared to what i can put it in for, being an electrician myself i cannot justify paying someone else to put the wires in, and i certainly dont want them surface/under carpets.

cheers

matt

 

[breezer]

why not under carpets? they are not mains? alarm engineers do it all the time which means they are good at lifting carpets, putting in cables so you wouldn't know they are there.

think about it if you want cables under the floor, chased in wall, it will cost more in labour to do this, i have heard about first fix being done then years later when cables go down, or more required, it cant be done becsue cable is in wall, under floor that now can not be acceessed i.e laminate floor now down.

also yes it is cheaper for you to do it, but what when it goes wrong? oy yeah, i will do that tomorrow (tomorrow never comes, alsrm companies are obliged to respond within 4 hours.

as for being on at night, you will be asleep, therefore all downstirsprotection can be on and any uppstirs off.

often upstairs there is only 1 pir on landing, its rare to have a breakin upstairs, (uness easy access, eg flat roof)

 

[mattux]

why not under carpets? they are not mains? alarm engineers do it all the time which means they are good at lifting carpets, putting in cables so you wouldn't know they are there.

because under the floor and in conduit flush mounted is a much more proffesional/tidy installation.
im rewiring/plumbing the house so floors coming up and everything else is flush.

think about it if you want cables under the floor, chased in wall, it will cost more in labour to do this, i have heard about first fix being done then years later when cables go down, or more required, it cant be done becsue cable is in wall, under floor that now can not be acceessed i.e laminate floor now down.

if youve got to take the carpet up anyway they may as well be under the floor then, no?
in conduit where the cables go up the wall so easily rewirable

also yes it is cheaper for you to do it, but what when it goes wrong? oy yeah, i will do that tomorrow (tomorrow never comes, alsrm companies are obliged to respond within 4 hours.

this is definately a benefit, but the costs involved make this a no no for me.

as for being on at night, you will be asleep, therefore all downstirsprotection can be on and any uppstirs off.

so when my baby wants a bottle heated up at 3am or if somebody wants a drink in the middle of the night, i have to deactivate it all and then reactivate? this is why i need contacts

often upstairs there is only 1 pir on landing, its rare to have a breakin upstairs, (uness easy access, eg flat roof)

we have a slightly pitched single storey roof which goes all the way acroos the back of the house

i understand your concerns about this that and the other, but really i just need advice on wiring the contacts/sensors rather than where my cables being run etc etc etc

cheers

matt

 

[andy]

its up to you how its done... your the 1 installing it.

as for floorboards, just because the carpet is lifted slightly doesnt mean access under the floor is really easy from there. you still have to get the board up, sometimes cut the board

put contacts in if you want to

if you still need help with the wiring, post again of exactly what you want

 

[breezer]

why not under carpets? they are not mains? alarm engineers do it all the time which means they are good at lifting carpets, putting in cables so you wouldn't know they are there.

because under the floor and in conduit flush mounted is a much more proffesional/tidy installation.
im rewiring/plumbing the house so floors coming up and everything else is flush.

If you want to put it under the floor in conduit, fine, but the fact is alarm companies do not do this, they dont even use steel counduit.

as for being on at night, you will be asleep, therefore all downstirsprotection can be on and any uppstirs off.

so when my baby wants a bottle heated up at 3am or if somebody wants a drink in the middle of the night, i have to deactivate it all and then reactivate? this is why i need contacts

Actually yes they do (so do i) its no hardship to press a few buttons

often upstairs there is only 1 pir on landing, its rare to have a breakin upstairs, (uness easy access, eg flat roof)

we have a slightly pitched single storey roof which goes all the way acroos the back of the house

i understand your concerns about this that and the other, but really i just need advice on wiring the contacts/sensors rather than where my cables being run etc etc etc

actually running cables outside the protected area (roof in your case) does not comply

to comply you have to put a detector in their or run the cable in conduit

I have no problem what you do, i am just telling you how it is.

may i suggest that you do have one device / circuit as it really makes life much easier, you can have up to 10 doors on the same circuit, but only one volumetric detector / circuit

assume one cct / opening window, count how many opening windows you have (note that, lets say 10)

one detector / room, (note that too, lets say 5)

You also have a front door (final exit)

lets have a pa for good measure (i have 2)

that makes 17 (10+5+1+1=17) so you need to have a panel that can have a mnimum of 17 ccts.

no problem, but i dont like texcom

anything else i can help with? (i was being serious)

 

[Lectrician]

The texecom premier range is very good, as is the menvier kit.

With the premier and menvier, you need a pair per detector for the tamper and alarm contacts, and a pair for power.

So an 8 core could do 3 detectors on 3 zones.

BUT cheaper panels that do not allow EOL wiring will need 2 pairs for tamper and alarm contact, so an 8 core will only give space for 2 detectors on two zones, and a shared tamper.

If installing from scratch, it is often better to star from the panel to each detector - these can be altered easily then.

If more than 8 zones, a zone expander is used, this is connected to the panel via a 6 core cable. This gives, usually, 8 more zones. A good idea to put the panel one end of the house, and the expander at the other.

Have a look here...

www.thesecurityinstaller.co.uk

 

[breezer]

If more than 8 zones, a zone expander is used, this is connected to the panel via a 6 core cable. This gives, usually, 8 more zones. A good idea to put the panel one end of the house, and the expander at the other.

not all panels do that, scantronic 96, & 98 dont

 

[andy]

www.thesecurityinstaller.co.uk

i was gonna say that site earlier, but thought id put the search engines in instead

 

[mattux]

breezer, youre obviously full of usefull information, why do i have to work so hard to drag it out of you

anyway thanks for the info just what i needed.
i will do as Lectrician says and wire 1 detector per cable to be safe

cheers

matt

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

www.thesecurityinstaller.co.uk

i was gonna say that site earlier, but thought id put the search engines in instead

i had searched m8 but 90% of my searches turned up pc related security but thanks anyway

cheers

matt
____________________________
moderator

please note 10a which is here

 

[baldelectrician]

I use nothing but texe alarms, excellent and good quality

As far as night time goes you just part set the alarm- downstairs on and upstairs off, this is quite easy to do with most panels

Yes use seperate cable to every sensor, i would use door contacts on external doors only, or on a second front door as well