Alfie Evans

[gasbanni]

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...re-life-support-parents-nhs-a8321226.html?amp

The doctors have made the decision to take him off life support .........fair enough they know the case........but he hasn't died and he's breathing on his own.......... why should they or judges prevent them seeking help from elsewhere it's now for them to decide Italy has made him an Italian citizen and true their treatment might not work but why prevent them from trying .....what is there to lose ?? Here the medical establishment has given up. Remember Aisha King ??? Last I read he's riding a bike

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a...droid-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

His parents went up against the "we know best attitude", hunted down but they won. Sometimes doctors can be arrogant basterds.

With the king episode a doctor was caught out by a reporter when asked about the kings been threatened with court orders and didn't know what to say ! The King's were very sharp in what they did and saved their little boy, they knew the treatment here proposed by the NHS would have turned him in to a cabbage ....so they ran ....good for them .......the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

 

[SirGalahad]

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...re-life-support-parents-nhs-a8321226.html?amp

The doctors have made the decision to take him off life support .........fair enough they know the case........but he hasn't died and he's breathing on his own.......... why should they or judges prevent them seeking help from elsewhere it's now for them to decide Italy has made him an Italian citizen and true their treatment might not work but why prevent them from trying .....what is there to lose ?? Here the medical establishment has given up. Remember Aisha King ??? Last I read he's riding a bike

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a...droid-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

His parents went up against the "we know best attitude", hunted down but they won. Sometimes doctors can be arrogant basterds.

With the king episode a doctor was caught out by a reporter when asked about the kings been threatened with court orders and didn't know what to say ! The King's were very sharp in what they did and saved their little boy, they knew the treatment here proposed by the NHS would have turned him in to a cabbage ....so they ran ....good for them .......the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

You need to see a Doctor. Is there anything you actually are correct on?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/death-and-dying

The fact he breathed unaided for a brief while does not mean he can breath unaided now.

As to King the kid did not have a neurological disorder.

The Italians are not offering him a cure. The High court have decided to place a travel ban on Alfie. Their concern is that he will not be able to last the trip to Italy.

 

[motorbiking]

Without naming cases... One report claimed that survival chances were reduced by 30% with proton beam. That risk of course needs to be balanced with quality of life.

I personally do not think the courts or doctors have the right to prescribe a persons death no matter how imanent.

As long as the parents can be argued to be considering the child’s best interests, even if experts disagree they should prevail. Dying with dignity and resting in peace are very much theological arguments. Particularly when the person may take several days to die. This isn’t agonal breathing as far as i know.

 

[Notch7]

Further detail on Alfie Evans case.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/chemical-suffocation-how-doctors-want-alfie-evans-to-die

The neurological damage seems as though it quite severe.

The end of life plan, doesnt seem very nice. I heard the father saying earlier that after extubation, the doctors were giving air, but no water or food.

Medical reports say the movements Alfie makes are involuntary so not an indication of natural redponse to any interaction or environment. The images do show him with his eyes fully open and he seems awake.

 

[ellal]

As I've said several times previously the state takes control when it is in IT'S best interests.

But surely when it comes down to it, you have to trust the parents instincts.

 

[^woody^]

That Christian Church who are supporting the legal action are using the parents and giving them bad advice to their own ends.

 

[misterdubya]

As I've said several times previously the state takes control when it is in IT'S best interests.

But surely when it comes down to it, you have to trust the parents instincts.

I don't often agree with what you type, but a long time ago my daughter was poorly and my wife told me at the start 'she has meningitis'. I even talked her out of it as this was after 1 doctor told me when I took her to him it was food poisoning. When she wouldn't respond to the 'keep her hydrated' and was basically dying, we had a rush to the hospital, and they kept treating her for tonsillitis for 2 days. A new doctor that came on shift at midnight on the 3rd day and listened to her but all her veins had collapsed by then. By 6am a lumber puncture was done, and it was confirmed. Huge injections in the legs and a day later she was drinking and eating again. We took her home the following day, but had to go back to the hospital every day for a week for them injections. My missus saved her life IMO. I made an appointment with the doctor who dismissed my daughter. He no longer works as a doctor. Now 13 and expensive she is, but she is here and has a life to live still. Everyone deserves that don't they?

 

[Keithmac]

I don't often agree with what you type, but a long time ago my daughter was poorly and my wife told me at the start 'she has meningitis'. I even talked her out of it as this was after 1 doctor told me when I took her to him it was food poisoning. When she wouldn't respond to the 'keep her hydrated' and was basically dying, we had a rush to the hospital, and they kept treating her for tonsillitis for 2 days. A new doctor that came on shift at midnight on the 3rd day and listened to her but all her veins had collapsed by then. By 6am a lumber puncture was done, and it was confirmed. Huge injections in the legs and a day later she was drinking and eating again. We took her home the following day, but had to go back to the hospital every day for a week for them injections. My missus saved her life IMO. I made an appointment with the doctor who dismissed my daughter. He no longer works as a doctor. Now 13 and expensive she is, but she is here and has a life to live still. Everyone deserves that don't they?

One of my best friends sisters had meningitis, life and death amd luckily she pulled through as well (3 years old iirc).

As for Alfie, I can't imagine the stress as his parents and I can't undersaynd why the hospital won't release him.

Someone said above it was because he wouldn't survive the flight to Italy, but what if he does?.

Can't comment either way being a lucky parent of two, can see Alfies parents argument though.

 

[transam]

That Christian Church who are supporting the legal action are using the parents and giving them bad advice to their own ends.

Even The Pope has got involved.

afaik the childs brain cavity is almost completely filled with fluid ??????????

The activities of some of these right to life extremists seems to be a disgrace tbh , medical staff seemed to be intimidated , concerns raised by hospital admin ect ect

 

[sodthisforfun]

When it is your own child you will fight tooth and nail to give them a chance at life, I really feel for these parents. I think they should be allowed to try anything for the sake of their son and for themselves. They can always look back without quite so much of the feeling of hopelessness and frustration had they tried everything as they must feel right now being stopped by the courts.

 

[HawkEye244]

Obviously I don't have kids but if I did and was facing something like this I can't imagine the sorts of behaviours that would come from me in such grief.

Whether or not the doctors are right or wrong, its quite obvious to me where they are falling sort is in working with the parents and helping them work through their trauma. I'm not sure what has and has not happened to pit the parents against the doctors, and of course the publicity of it which is no doubt making existing tensions even worse. But it's self-evident that things have gone wrong hence this adversarial outcome.

I do wonder sometimes whether doctors have the skills necessary to deal with such difficult cases. Have they spoken to the parents on the level, I mean really spoken to them, not just briefed them on the state of things like a car mechanic briefs it's owner on the cost of repairs ? Do doctors have the necessary people skills anymore ? Had the parent's emotional needs been met in this situation would they be challenging the authority of the doctors ? Do these issues raise questions about how the NHS is structured, and whether funding, politics and management short falls are contributing to these negative patient/ doctor exchanges? Or is it something about the times and culture we are living in ?

 

[transam]

Don't see why they cannot take the child to Italy tbh , air ambulance is or was standing by? Italians said they can help ? granted Italian citzenship ?

 

[ellal]

I don't often agree with what you type, but a long time ago my daughter was poorly and my wife told me at the start 'she has meningitis'. I even talked her out of it as this was after 1 doctor told me when I took her to him it was food poisoning. When she wouldn't respond to the 'keep her hydrated' and was basically dying, we had a rush to the hospital, and they kept treating her for tonsillitis for 2 days. A new doctor that came on shift at midnight on the 3rd day and listened to her but all her veins had collapsed by then. By 6am a lumber puncture was done, and it was confirmed. Huge injections in the legs and a day later she was drinking and eating again. We took her home the following day, but had to go back to the hospital every day for a week for them injections. My missus saved her life IMO. I made an appointment with the doctor who dismissed my daughter. He no longer works as a doctor. Now 13 and expensive she is, but she is here and has a life to live still. Everyone deserves that don't they?

Again a while ago, a young child of a friend of ours suddenly developed a rash and peeling fingers. The local doctors said it was nothing to worry about, but the parent's instincts kicked in and they went to a different hospital. It was the now defunct military hospital in Aldershot, and as luck would have it a doctor there had seen the condition abroad - kawasaki's disease. Not often fatal, but it can seriously affect the heart. Whilst it's not always true, a parent usually knows best!

 

[SirGalahad]

Obviously I don't have kids but if I did and was facing something like this I can't imagine the sorts of behaviours that would come from me in such grief.

Whether or not the doctors are right or wrong, its quite obvious to me where they are falling sort is in working with the parents and helping them work through their trauma. I'm not sure what has and has not happened to pit the parents against the doctors, and of course the publicity of it which is no doubt making existing tensions even worse. But it's self-evident that things have gone wrong hence this adversarial outcome.

I do wonder sometimes whether doctors have the skills necessary to deal with such difficult cases. Have they spoken to the parents on the level, I mean really spoken to them, not just briefed them on the state of things like a car mechanic briefs it's owner on the cost of repairs ? Do doctors have the necessary people skills anymore ? Had the parent's emotional needs been met in this situation would they be challenging the authority of the doctors ? Do these issues raise questions about how the NHS is structured, and whether funding, politics and management short falls are contributing to these negative patient/ doctor exchanges? Or is it something about the times and culture we are living in ?

What a load of drivel. You obviously know no doctors.

The vast majority of these cases the parents and the doctors agree.

Alfie parents have been badly let down by their advisers, supporters and their cause has been hijacked.

Demonising the medical staff. The decision was made by the high court. Medical experts from around the world agreed on his condition.

It's weird, the idiotic right for lifers won't fight for basic human rights.

 

[ellal]

The decision was made by the high court.

And the courts/doctors always know best, don't they?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/28599...-therapy-brain-tumour-treatment-row-with-nhs/

"ASHYA King is cancer free and back at school according to his delighted dad - nearly three years after a bitter row with the NHS over his treatment.
Brett and Naghmeh King took their son out of hospital and travelled to the Czech Republic for proton therapy treatment in August 2014, sparking an international manhunt."


And funnily enough the treatment that the doctors in the UK wanted to deny Ashya is now available here!

Medical experts from around the world agreed on his condition.

But not the ones in Italy!