Another Building Control Question

[custardavenger]

HI Chaps. I'm new hear but have been doing a lot of reading and I now need some help.

I'm looking at buying my first house. I have got quite far in the process but am stalling on the fact that the house has been extended but these works do not have building certificates.
I have copies of planning permission for the main extension and the porch and conservatory, I am waiting to see if there are Building control Certificates for these but I suspect not.
The survey also brought up that a wall had been removed in the Dining room (I believe this was don with the main extension), and that there are issues with the chimney that has been removed on the ground floor only. There is no planning for these or certificates.
I plan to do quite a bit of work to the house. I intend to remove the rest of the chimney as well as a work on the bit of original roof to add felt, remove old beams that have been left from the extension and put in 8" beam and board out the loft for storage. I also want to change the roof on the porch for a tile one.
After this I plan to ad a two storey garage extension which I have provisionally ok'd with the planning department.

My Solicitor has mentioned Indemnity insurance which the seller won't pay for.

I'm really not sure where to go from here.

Can I get Building control to certificate the works already done? Or is that a very risky idea? What about if I tale out the insurance and then do it?

I Hope to get a builder to have a look at the roof just to check what I want to do and make sure that the builder who did the extension did it right.

Can I get plans of the house? I would like to know where the wall that was removed used to be.

If the various extensions don't have certificates I would like to get them so that when I come to selling this is not an issue. I'm not scared about having to do some of the work as long as the main extension is OK.

What do you guys think?

 

[^woody^]

Get the property properly surveyed.

If the survey finds that the work has been done properly and there are no structural issues, then you can ignore the fact that there is no bit of paper from the council telling you this.

Your surveyor should also be able to tell you what work is likely to be an issue with the planning or b/regs depts. The chances of the council taking an interest in any works done without permission is none to slim. And the value of indemnity insurance is even less

 

[custardavenger]

Cheers for the reply

The survey I had done was a home buyers. The only survey better would only have added more photo's. and them checking taps and sockets. I'm a little disappointed with the survey. I am in contact with the seller directly and went round to check some of the issues he had pointed out. Some were hardly worth mentioning.
From the survey he put
"Walls in the dining room have been removed and whilst there is no evidence of significant cracking to the areas adjacent it is not possible to confirm that supports are provided. Your legal adviser should confirm whether or not local approval has been obtained for this alteration and as necessary refer the matter back to the surveyor for further advice."
I can't see a surveyor being able to check this out with out some destruction happening which clearly the seller wouldn't allow.

He did mention that the chimney would need ventilation and the the roof beams are attached to the chimney which would have to be rectified but as I plan to remove the chimney anyway I'm not worried at the moment about that.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

A conventional survey is useless for items like this have no idea why woody thought one would be!

Anyhoo, when were the the extension/porch added?

You can get regularisation (ie retrospective Building Regs approval) but it will cost you a few quid, you'll likely have to expose each end of the beam (or whatever's up there) and may also involve employing a structure engineer. The same applies to the rest of the works/existing extension, you may well have to expose bits and pieces to prove how its been constructed (or hasn't).

Now you could just keep quiet and forget about the regs on these bits as long as they've been up for a few years there's unlikely to be any danger to worry about. However, when you come to do your new extension your friendly Building Control will no doubt spot these illegal works and likely insist you apply for Regularisation for these works ie hold you to ransom effectively. Lawfully I recall they are not allowed to do this however in reality they do.

woody was right in that the indemnity ins is not worth the paper its written on, they just make a few quid for the solicitor however your mortgage company may insist on it.

 

[custardavenger]

Cheers Freddyetc

The Porch, conservatory was added in 1994
The main extension I'm not so sure about but the planning was approved 1985

What do you think about finding out where this wall used to be? How would I go about finding that out?

I will be pulling quite a bit of the house apart when I move in as some ceilings need replacing, there is the chimney to go and a lot of electrics to go in. So depending on which room I have to attach, exposing a beam or two shouldn't be a problem.
When you say it will cost a few quid do you mean in charges or in building work to uncover and cover again? Any idea on how much?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

1985!!!!! Jeez, I'd be surprised if Building Control would give a toss tbh, give 'em a ring and ask them, you've nothing to lose! You can speak to Building Control surveyor at your council anomalously and get a feel for how they'd pursue it (or not as I suspect). There's exceedingly unlikely to be any danger from anything structural, it would have fallen down of started to bow years ago.

If they came over all Nazis on your A*SE and insisted on Regularisation then you'd need to expose a few areas probably, this would cost a little although if you're ripping the house apart anyway then it may not be much effort. Building Control Regularisation charges are something like £600 for an extension. Structural engineer to prove a beam was up to strength is like to be approx £150. If the works were found to be below the standard as required when the extension was built (you'd need to find out somehow) then you may have to put these right or compensate for them in your new extension ie if no insulation whatsoever was fitted in the '85 extension you may be able to just up the insulation in your new fella. Still were getting a bit ahead of ourselves now!

More reading here and the other thread it links to //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1699148#1699148

 

[^woody^]

If the work has been done for any length of time then it can be assumed that it is not going anywhere fast. If it was going to fall down then it would do so soon after being done or would show signs of it.

A proper survey is a bit different to a Home Buyer survey, and by proper I mean having a proper look at it. I don't know why fmt thought it would not be suitable.

If the vendor wont allow an invasive look and can't supply more detail, then you will have to take on the risk. You either buy it as is, or make an offer based on what work might be needed.

If you are going to knock the place around anyway, then there should be no real concerns.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

There, now we've got a thumbs down each!

 

[custardavenger]

Sweet cheers guys.

I had though about ringing BC tomorrow so will do that.

What are you're thoughts on the Chimney?
Do I need planning to remove the stack? Planning portal doesn't say.
I'm guessing the best solution is to get planning if needed and remove the lot and then get BC in and they will never know about what was done before.

Quick noob question. I don't see many pictures on here. Are pictures allowed? If they are I'll get some posted up.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=129539

 

[DevilDamo]

Do I need planning to remove the stack? Planning portal doesn't say.

This is the nearest advice on the PP...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/flueschimneys

My understanding is if you're installing a new chimney, then permission may be required. If you're removing a chimney, then permission will not be required. I used to think permission was required if the property was within a conservation area but I've found this is not the case. Not sure about a listed building though, as this may require permission.

As for building regulation approval, it will be required if the removal involves structural alterations.

If in doubt, ask and speak to your LA

 

[custardavenger]

OK to update this. I spoke to Building Control today and they were very helpful. The basics are.

The main extension was build before BC Certificates existed so that planning is enough.

Porch and conservatory are not an issue and even though the porch is of the same construction as the conservatory I can put any roof on it I like as it is classified as a porch (I realise this will need extra support)

The Chimney removal without planning will be fine if I remove the rest of the Chimney, He said this would not need passing of but I'm not so sure. I'm happy to get them in to check if I can and get a cert

The missing wall was probably done when the extension was put up. I told the guy that I would probably be uncovering the strengthening work done. He said it could be checked at the same time as other work being done ie the Garage but I don't plan on doing them together so hopefully I can get it signed of with the chimney.

So anyway I'm happy now to buy the house. As I see it the only risk is that I uncover a bodge job on removing the wall but shouldn't be an terrible fix and I'll need to do similar work at the same time to floor joists that are attached to the chimney stack.

Thanks for the advice guys. I will be back with many questions once I'm in.