Another Ceiling Rose install

[Nelly1964]

Hello All,
Read and re-read all I can on here about adding ceiling roses and need advice.
Already have one ceiling rose at one end of hallway and I want to add another ceiling rose plus two more switches.
In effect two lights controlled by three switches if possible.
Or new rose controlled by two new switches.
Can I add additional cable to the existing rose ?
There is a junction box but this has four cables coming from it so not sure if this is suitable.
Any help is much appreciated.
Nelly

 

[ban-all-sheds]

In effect two lights controlled by three switches if possible.

Perfectly possible.

Can I add additional cable to the existing rose ?

Yes - use twin & earth to take switched live, neutral and earth to the new rose.

The switches just connect to each other using 3-core & earth cable.

'tis all in the Wiki: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting

There is a junction box but this has four cables coming from it so not sure if this is suitable.

Depends what those 4 cables are....

 

[Taylortwocities]

How you do it will depend on how your lighting circuit is wired.

More modern installs use 'loop in' wiring.
Older ones have a big junction box hidden under the floor somewhere.

The above methods are where lighting circuits tend to start out.
If they have been added to or modified there are many sneaky ways of doing things.

Unscrew the cover of your existing ceiling rose and take a picture for us to see. Then we'll have an idea of the starting position.

 

[Nelly1964]

Thanks for the quick replies fellas, glad to know it's do-able
Photo's of the rose from below and above :

Hallway Ceiling Rose

• Nelly1964
• 19 Sep 2011
• 1

Above Hallway Ceiling Rose

• Nelly1964
• 19 Sep 2011
• 1

This is underneath the bathroom floor

Reading the wiki now and always welcome advice/encouragement.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Your pic shows that you do have a lighting circuit wired as a loop in system. This is good news - you can follow the diagrams in the WIKI!

 

[securespark]

So, you have one rose & one switch at the moment?

Tapping off for an extra rose is easy: just connect a T&E cable to the terminals in the rose that feed the lamp. Don't forget the earth.

Doing the switches is more tricky. The ease of installation and quantity of disruption to decoration would depend upon where the existing switch is and where the new ones are going. Can you take a piccy of your hall and mark on the new positions to give us an idea?

See here for diagrams of three way (or intermediate) switch wiring:

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting:intermediate

 

[Nelly1964]

So, you have one rose & one switch at the moment?

Tapping off for an extra rose is easy: just connect a T&E cable to the terminals in the rose that feed the lamp. Don't forget the earth.

Doing the switches is more tricky. The ease of installation and quantity of disruption to decoration would depend upon where the existing switch is and where the new ones are going. Can you take a piccy of your hall and mark on the new positions to give us an idea?

See here for diagrams of three way (or intermediate) switch wiring:

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting:intermediate[/QUOTE]

That's right, one rose in the hall, not shown in pic but directly above my head, controlled by one switch of the three gang on the right of the pic. New positions of rose etc are marked in white. Disruption to decor is not a problem but time is against me.

Untitled

• Nelly1964
• 20 Sep 2011
• 1

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Tapping off for an extra rose is easy: just connect a T&E cable to the terminals in the rose that feed the lamp. Don't forget the earth.

That's going to be a tight squeeze. It might be better to rationalise what's going on with the associated junction box (e.g. the switch drop cable already goes through it) and make all the connections there, as per the 2nd diagram here: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting-circuit-layouts
and just take one twin & earth to each rose. That would also pay dividends in the future if ever light fittings with only L/N/E were to be installed.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That's right, one rose in the hall, not shown in pic but directly above my head, controlled by one switch of the three gang on the right of the pic.

If it isn't already a 2-way switch, the 3-gang needs to be replaced with one which is, or both switches replaced by a 4-gang 2-way, which might look better.

Then you are going to have to add 3-core & earth running from there to the two new switch positions, i.e. up the wall, through the floor, and up & down the wall on the other side of the hall.

Disruption to decor is not a problem but time is against me.

Better get cracking then.

 

[Nelly1964]

Better get cracking then.

Decided to go with the rose to rose method and so far so good.
Wired everything up before placing it and it works as it should.

Decided to go with new switches operating the new light only.
Too much graft and once the new light is in the old one will be pretty much redundant.

Thanks for the help and the smiles.
May be back for more info, it's not over yet.
Thanks again, Nelly

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Decided to go with the rose to rose method and so far so good.
Wired everything up before placing it and it works as it should.

i.e. the new light goes on and off along with the existing one?

Decided to go with new switches operating the new light only.

When you've done this:

connect a T&E cable to the terminals in the rose that feed the lamp.

?

May be back for more info, it's not over yet.

If you have connected the new rose to the terminals in the old rose that feed the lamp, and you want the new switches to operate the new light only, you'll be back.

 

[securespark]

I fear I may have confused Daisy...

 

[securespark]

I fear I may have confused Daisy...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Daisy?

Anyway - your advice to Nelly was fine given her original requirement:

I want to add another ceiling rose plus two more switches.
In effect two lights controlled by three switches if possible.

So - we await further news from the front. If she's connected it in order to support her original idea of 2 lights with 3-way switching and then abandoned 3-way switching in favour of 2-way with 2 new switches the news will come.

 

[Nelly1964]

Daisy?

Anyway - your advice to Nelly was fine given her original requirement:

I want to add another ceiling rose plus two more switches.
In effect two lights controlled by three switches if possible.

So - we await further news from the front. If she's connected it in order to support her original idea of 2 lights with 3-way switching and then abandoned 3-way switching in favour of 2-way with 2 new switches the news will come.

And the news from the front is that the job is finished.

I have two lights in the hall and three switches.
One light operated by one switch is by the front door and one light operated by two switches further down the hallway.
Couldn't be ar**d to wire up all three switches to both lights, would've been good but not vital.
All that's left is to make good etc etc.

Ban all sheds : went with your suggestion to change the existing three gang and one gang to a four gang and it looks much tidier so thanks for that.

And thanks to all.
p.s. she's actually a he, last time I looked anyway.