Another EV query.

[whistler]

I have recently bought a new electric vehicle. (Hyundai Ioniq 5). One of the features of the car is a 13amp 3 pin mains socket below the rear seats. This derives 240v from the main EV battery and can be used to power / charge portable appliances with a rating up to 16 amp. So for example if you are camping, you could power lights, kettle, chiller box etc.

The thought occurred to me that although its a 3 pin plug, there can't be any earth connection to the socket as obviously the car isn't connected to any earth.

So I wondered, if for example a faulty metal appliance was plugged in, i.e live wire touching metal, would it be dangerous? The obvious answer is yes, but surely the manufacturers will have thought of this and built in some protection?

There is no mention in the user manual about what can and cannot be plugged in other than the max 16a rating. However it does say that the appliance must have a connected earth pin.

I know of another owner who queried this with the dealer and the salesman replied that its perfectly safe as the car is sat on rubber tyres so you can't get a shock!

I'm curious to know how this works. Any ideas?

 

[motorbiking]

I suspect there is some sort of RCD.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I don't know how the car works but there can still be an 'earth'(ground) even though it is not connected to the planet such that if there is an appliance fault and its metal casing becomes live then a fuse/breaker will disconnect the supply in the normal way.

 

[winston1]

If it is an isolated supply no earth is required in the same way as a bathroom shaver socket. What you must not do is plug in a multi-way adapter and run two of more appliances off it.

 

[AdrianUK]

Interesting.... does the manual give any guidance on what can be used for how long?

16A @ 230V is around 4kW. I can't see how the vehicle battery can sustain that kind of drain for hours on end & still be driven away.......

 

[flameport]

I can't see how the vehicle battery can sustain that kind of drain for hours on end & still be driven away.......

Most of the items that are high current won't be used for long, just as with using those items in a house. Kettle, toaster, hotplate are likely items, particularly as whatever will be used would normally need to be portable.

The average UK home uses about 10kWh per day.
The ioniq5 has a 72kWh battery, which would power that typical UK home for a week on a single charge.

A 16A load from the outlet for 2 hours is only 10% of the battery capacity.
An extremely unlikely scenario of a 2kW fan heater on continuously for 12 hours is still only a third of the battery capacity.

 

[IJWS15]

If it didn’t have a hole for the earth pin you couldn’t use a 13A plug. Probably nothing connected to it.

Wife’s last Mokka had a built in invertor and 13A socket, forget what the current limit was in the book. it was never used.

 

[Adam_151]

There are two possible scenarios here:

1) Its an electrically separate supply, with live and neutral having no reference to earth, the earth conductor would probably be connected to the bodywork of the vehicle. On a multimeter you'd probably see 115v neutral to earth and 115v live to earth because its floating and the meter is high impedance. RCDs don't do a lot of good on this sort of supply. It would be good advice to only connect one piece of kit at a time.

2) Earth is referenced to neutral and would also be referenced to the bodywork (most likely). And an RCD is provided (may be electronic), you'd see the same on a multimeter as on house mains 230V L-E, near 0V N-E. There are no concerns about multiple items asside from loading considerations

#2 is what should happen in a mobile burger van, an earth electrode would be adviseable if on a static pitch and its practicable, but not absolutly esstential, 1# is what happens in practice more often than not as they are often using small generators with a floating supply intended to run one piece of kit at a time.

The Ioniq 5 looks reminiscent of 80s styling in some ways... perhaps one of those trailing earth straps would suit it

 

[JohnD]

If it is not earthed, then you cannot get a shock from (for example) standing barefoot on wet ground and touching a live conductor, or an appliance that, due to a fault, has become live.

The only way you can get a shock is by touching the L and N conductor at the same time, for example if you were an imbecile or suicidal.

In neither event would an RCD be of any use

 

[ericmark]

If it is an isolated supply no earth is required in the same way as a bathroom shaver socket. What you must not do is plug in a multi-way adapter and run two of more appliances off it.

That seems likely the right answer, but not seen @winston1 for some time, question asked in 2021, so seems a little pointless answering it now.

 

[Risteard]

If it is not earthed, then you cannot get a shock from (for example) standing barefoot on wet ground and touching a live conductor, or an appliance that, due to a fault, has become live.

The only way you can get a shock is by touching the L and N conductor at the same time, for example if you were an imbecile or suicidal.

In neither event would an RCD be of any use

If neither pole is Earthed then there is no neutral conductor.

 

[JohnD]

But there is very likely a pin and connected wire marked "L" and another marked "N"

 

[ericmark]

But there is very likely a pin and connected wire marked "L" and another marked "N"

Yes nearly every 110 bit of equipment has L and N rather than L1 and L2 and used brown and blue for the lives instead of two browns or brown and black, when they are clearly run from a split phase supply and simply don't have a neutral.

So what does the L and N marking show?

I have a jump start pack with a 200 watt inverter built in and a 13 amp socket, as with the isolation transformer with a bathroom tooth brush supply there is no bonding to earth and as long as only one item used there is no problem, the only time where we get a problem is when multi items are used.

But as said a rather old thread, so all a bit pointless.

 

[Why Not Indeed]

But as said a rather old thread, so all a bit pointless.

Why is it pointless? So long as the answers are relevant, useful and correct, what is the problem with replying?
Dare I ask, why did you reply if you think doing so is pointless?
A forum thread is not a bottle of milk.