Another question about downlighters in a bathroom

[thedigger]

Hi, I know there have been loads of threads on this, but....

We're having the ceiling in the bathroom replaced (old sagging lathe and plaster taken out), and I thought it would be a good time to fit downlights*. The ones I've bought are not IPxx rated, but are 12v . My ceiling will be over 2.25m high (approx 2.40m) so it is out of the zones... can I fit these in the bathroom?

I also intend to install these in the downstairs toilet/shower room, and was hoping to have one directly above the shower cubicle (again, 2.40m high ceilings, and approx 2.60m above the base of the recessed shower tray). Again, can I use these here? (the zones picture I've seen says 2.25m above the bottom of the shower tray, not 2.25m above the shower head).

* Yes I know these are inefficient, need firehoods, are a fad, a hazard, are designed to highlight stuff in cabinets etc etc.... but I like 'em. Oh, and I'm aware of Part P and already have a NICEIC registered electrician willing to assist with the planned cable routes, check my work, make final connections, certify etc.


Cheers!

 

[Taylortwocities]

The ones I've bought are not IPxx rated, but are 12v .

These do not comply with Building Regulations Part C and will allow the passage of your bathroom steamy moisture into the roof space.

And why do you think you need firehoods?

 

[securespark]

Oh, and I'm aware of Part P and already have a NICEIC registered electrician willing to assist with the planned cable routes, check my work, make final connections, certify etc.

In your dreams. If he does that, he risks not being an NIC spark much longer.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Although your lights are outside of zone 2 and IP ratings are not part of the requirements of part P.
You must take consideration in to moisture getting in to your loft space, which can cause problems with condensation and in time effect the structure of the property.
So I personally would be looking at a product that had a moisture seal to prevent this.
If space above the bath room is a loft area and not used as a living area fire hoods or fire rated lights may not be needed, but I would recommend them, but it's optional.

Downstairs shower room/toilet must be fire rated, unless other provisions are mad to stop the spread of fire within the ceiling/floor void.

I don't see the need to install 12V though. Transformers can be a pain!

 

[thedigger]

I thought light fittings in bathrooms needed to be 12v now? If I could use 240v it would make life easier as I could use energy saving bulbs, although I'm unsure whether that would be safe directly above the shower cubicle.

I'll send these lights back, but can anyone recommend an alternative? The main bathroom is below the loft, the shower room is downstairs (directly below the main bathroom).

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I thought light fittings in bathrooms needed to be 12v now?

Who said that?
Your Part P, NICEIC registered electrician?

If I could use 240v it would make life easier as I could use energy saving bulbs, although I'm unsure whether that would be safe directly above the shower cubicle.

Is it outside Zone 2?

I'll send these lights back, but can anyone recommend an alternative?

Personal choice

The main bathroom is below the loft, the shower room is downstairs (directly below the main bathroom).

I would definitely install fire rated in shower room, it's highly unlikely a fire could start in this room, but provision against the spread of fire is a must.

 

[bernardgreen]

I would definitely install fire rated in shower room, it's highly unlikely a fire could start in this room, but provision against the spread of fire is a must.

A retired fireman friend attended a shower room fire. Electric shower went up in flames flammable shower curtain and window blinds then provided a lot of high calorific fuel.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

A retired fireman friend attended a shower room fire. Electric shower went up in flames flammable shower curtain and window blinds then provided a lot of high calorific fuel.

Well there we go then, a good case for fire rated downlights as a provision against the spread of fire, as fires like these do happen.

 

[thedigger]

I thought light fittings in bathrooms needed to be 12v now?

Who said that?
Your Part P, NICEIC registered electrician?

No, he is there to check and test my installation, he told me to read up on the regulations. The regs state "SELV appliances permitted" according to here. Is this not the case then, or have I just misinterpreted the rules.

If I could use 240v it would make life easier as I could use energy saving bulbs, although I'm unsure whether that would be safe directly above the shower cubicle.

Is it outside Zone 2?

Yes, assuming I've interpreted the rules correctly and zone 2 ends 2.25m above the bottom of the shower tray, and not 2.25m above the water outlet (ie the shower head)

I'll send these lights back, but can anyone recommend an alternative?

Personal choice

Thanks

The main bathroom is below the loft, the shower room is downstairs (directly below the main bathroom).

I would definitely install fire rated in shower room, it's highly unlikely a fire could start in this room, but provision against the spread of fire is a must.

Cheers, I will look for fire rated (and ditch the firehoods idea then presumably?).

 

[thedigger]

I assume these will be ok (for both rooms) then?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/FRSHGUCBR.html

They are 240v, IP65, fire rated. Looks like a winner all round as they will be safe, protect against fire encroaching through ceilings and can be used with low voltage (CFL or LED) bulbs.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

No, he is there to check and test my installation, he told me to read up on the regulations. The regs state "SELV appliances permitted" according to here. Is this not the case then, or have I just misinterpreted the rules.

You have not misinterpreted rules, you have misinterpreted English.
Key word is permitted but just because SELV is permitted, does not mean everything else is not!

Yes, assuming I've interpreted the rules correctly and zone 2 ends 2.25m above the bottom of the shower tray, and not 2.25m above the water outlet (ie the shower head)

Which it does, the positions of the water outlets, does not make the zones any different.

Thanks

No problems.

Cheers, I will look for fire rated (and ditch the firehoods idea then presumably?).

I would, they are a pain in the arse!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

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No, he is there to check and test my installation, he told me to read up on the regulations. The regs state "SELV appliances permitted" according to here. Is this not the case then, or have I just misinterpreted the rules.

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Yes, assuming I've interpreted the rules correctly and zone 2 ends 2.25m above the bottom of the shower tray, and not 2.25m above the water outlet (ie the shower head)

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Thanks

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Cheers, I will look for fire rated (and ditch the firehoods idea then presumably?).

But he didn't.

Please take the trouble to split quotes and replies up properly.

 

[thedigger]

But he didn't.

Meaning..?

 

[EFLImpudence]

"SELV appliances permitted"

To help dispel your confusion -

A luminaire is not an appliance.
It is fixed current using equipment.

240V luminaires are permitted in zones 1 & 2 IF suitably manufactured for those zones.

 

[thedigger]

Ok I'm gonna order these then, they appear to tick all the boxes

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/FRSHGUCBR.html