anti virus

I offer help feely and put as simply and fiendly as possible because the experience of anyone reading what I say is unknown.

Softus said:
pchelpman said:
Yes, you should get a hardware firewall, if you can...
"If you can"? What's that supposed to mean?
What it says.

Naebothernoo may be relying on a software firewall alone. There may be practical difficulites I am unaware of.

I agree NAT hides a computer from the Internet which makes it a simple but effective firewall.

Softus said:
...and a software one.
Hogwash. Most software firewalls clash with many other software products and local networks, use up system resources, contain many bugs, and get in yer face. And there's no counter benefit to having one if you have a NAT router (aka hardware firewall, by some people).
I have heard the view that, if one has a router/hardware firewall, a software firewall is irrelevant.

A hardware (or perimeter) firewall built into a broadband router is going to do absolutely nothing to outbound traffic and, even if it did, it has no possibility to be "application aware".

The only way to have application-level protection is to have a process running on the machine itself which identifies processes attempting to make outbound connections from the machine.

A perimeter firewall (even those with stateful packet inspection and rudimentary intrusion detection) typically looks only at ports and/or protocols for determining what is and is not allowed through.


Softus said:
...(do not use the windows built in firewall)...
Why on earth not?
The Windows Firewall does not monitor or block outbound traffic. If naebothernoo wishes to rely on a software firewall alone this will not be the firewall of choice.

Softus said:
Is this what you do - issue edicts with no justification or explanation?
No. I try to give my opinions without technobabble. If a poster clearly wants detailed and technical data to answer his/her question I will oblige.


I trust this allays your concerns sufficiently.
 
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pchelpman said:
I offer help feely and put as simply and fiendly as possible because the experience of anyone reading what I say is unknown.
Well, kindly stop being so fiendly.

pchelpman said:
There may be practical difficulites I am unaware of.
Oh I'm sure that there are.

I agree NAT hides a computer from the Internet which makes it a simple but effective firewall.
It wouldn't make a jot of difference if you didn't agree.

A hardware (or perimeter) firewall built into a broadband router is going to do absolutely nothing to outbound traffic and, even if it did, it has no possibility to be "application aware".
Really. Well I've lost count of the number of NAT routers I've installed that are configurable to constrain outbound traffic.

The only way to have application-level protection is to have a process running on the machine itself which identifies processes attempting to make outbound connections from the machine.
Yeah, and as if those protective processes aren't the first to be attacked by the rogue software that they're attempting to bar. Clearly the spyware writers have more wits about them than you do.

A perimeter firewall (even those with stateful packet inspection and rudimentary intrusion detection) typically looks only at ports and/or protocols for determining what is and is not allowed through.
Make your mind up - previously you said that such a firewall would do nothing.

The Windows Firewall does not monitor or block outbound traffic. If naebothernoo wishes to rely on a software firewall alone this will not be the firewall of choice.
Clearly not the one of your choice, but fortunately that's of little consequence.

Softus said:
I trust this allays your concerns sufficiently.
You may trust whatever you like.
 
I cant see the point in having a software firewall as well as a NAT router, if the router isnt sufficient protection then maybe look into a dedicated firewall such as a pix or a sonic. That said, I very much doubt that this is the case here!
Most can be configured to filter outbound traffic, and most (if not all) block most incoming by default, which is why port forwarding may need to be set up. Most home/soho routers only offer 10 though which is a shame.
Application aware software in theory sounds good, but how on earth does a none technical person know what to click when they see a message such as "Generic host process for Win32 services is trying to access the internet" ?
What if the software crashes or becomes corrupt for whatever reason?
At the end of the day, this pc is a home pc, its not a bank and a NAT router will suit the job just fine without any additional software being installed on the pc. The cost of such an item isnt much more than the price of many software "solutions" that are available.
 
Software firewalls are (IMHO) a waste of time, especially inside a network, but also on stand-alone machines.

If you have a legitimate application that needs to access the Internet, then you should either allow it to do so, or use it's own settings to prevent it, or uninstall it.

If you have an "unknown" application, such as a virus or other nasties, then using a software firewall to block it is folly, as it merely hides the problem. These should be removed, not blocked.

All the routers I install allow full port configuration.
 
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My head is beginning to hurt. Can you explain what a Nat firewall is . I access the internet througha BT Broadband wireless router although I am not using the supplied BT software. Does this router provide a firewall or will I need to buy a hardware firewall, if needed what can anyone recommend. Eggplant you are quite correct when any prompts pop up it is way above my level of knowledge Thanks for all the help(by the way I am pleased with avast )
 
What router is it, chances are you already have a NAT router and didnt even know it!
I'll try to explain without going into great detail, and because of that the facts might not be 100% but will hopefuly make sense!

When a device connects to the internet, it will get whats called an IP address, in fact, any network device at all has an IP address. An IP address is basically a group of numbers, so for example I plug in my adsl modem, connect to the internet and get the IP 217.154.3.67 from my ISP, there will be no other computer in the world with this same internet IP. (it is actually more technical than that how ISP's provide the IP's but stick with that idea)
Now, on a "local network" i.e. in an office or at home where all the pc's are "linked", each pc on that network will have its own IP address (its actually the network card in the pc that has the IP), these IP addresses will have been either manually assigned, or assigned by a router (like yours probably has) or server. There are ranges of IP addresses used for private networks - so each pc on this private network has an ip, each one different but on the same range, for eg in a 3 pc network you might have 192.168.1.1, 192.168.1.2, and 192.168.1.3, and of course the router will have its own on the same range, AND the router will also have an internet IP.
Now, since the 192.168 network is a LOCAL network, these pc's can speak to each other (and the router) quite happily, however what happens when one needs to get on the internet? 192.168 cant see an internet IP such as 217.154.3.67 (take my word for it - they cant see each other, I'm not going to go into details as to why - just take it that becasue they are different numbers they cant)
So what we need to join the 2 networks is a router, what a router basically does is join 2 networks, in our case here, what we need to do is get the 3 pc's on the internet, now heres where NAT (Network Address Translation) comes into play, say a pc on our local network 192.168.1.1 wants to go to www.google.com, the user types that into the address bar, then rather than the pc go straight onto the internet directly and look for google, it goes to the router, the router then "forwards" this information to the internet, the internet then says "heres google", the router then sends this back to the computer at 192.168.1.1. Now, in this example, "the internet" doesnt know about the pc 192.168.1.1, in fact it doesnt even know that this pc exists, it DOES know that the IP address 217.154.3.67 exists, because this is the INTERNET IP of the router. The same goes for any of the other 192.168.1.x computers.
So looking at it from the opposite side now, If you had a single pc connected straight to the internet (i.e. no router, just a modem, adsl modem or whatever) then anyone from the outside world trying to "hack" your pc, will have a direct connection to your pc. But with a NAT router, as I hopefully explained, they would not have this direct connection becasue the pc isnt connected to the internet directly, the router is, so anyone that might try and connect from the outside is actually only going to be trying to connect to the router not a computer sitting "behind" the router. So basically the router is a sort of "middle man" between the pc's and the internet.
Now becasue of this, action, people from the outside are blocked from your network (or single pc) because as I said, anyone from the outside will get to the router not a pc behind the router UNLESS, we WANT the outside world to access a particular pc on the network - why the heck would we want that you might be thinking! Well imagine you have 3 pc's and on one you would like to run a web server, or maybe host a game so that others can join, when they try to access the website or the game, they actually try and connect to the router as we said, but the router of course isnt running a web server or a game server, so we have to tell the router WHICH pc is running the server, so if we are running a web server on say pc 192.168.1.1, we need to tell the router that anyone requesting a web page is to be directed on to 192.168.1.1, so jo bloggs types in his browser http://eggplant.com, the page is found to be at 217.154.3.67 (our routers IP address), the router goes "ok, someone after a web page, I've been told to send anyone after a web page on over to 192.168.1.1, but I cant do that, because I'm a NAT router, so what I'll do is pass the information that has been requested on to 192.168.1.1, and then if 192.168.1.1 wants to send anything back, I'll send it for them" So you see, even though our web server is on pc 192.168.1.1, as far as any visitors to the site are concerned, the site is actually on IP 217.154.3.67. Likewise, all of the 192.168.1.x pc's for all intents and purposes have the same internet IP address since its not them but the router that has the net connection and it just passes the relevant info back to each one.

Er, I hope that makes a bit of sense!
 
Thanks for that explanation(I think) Now I know why I avoid the technical side of my computer. I am using a BT home hub and am on option2, which includes norton AV. But I don't know if there is any benefit to this or if everything gets scanned for viruses or if it is an option to be selected. thanks for the help
 
Hmm,

Just reread my post and it could have been a bit better ;)

What is the model of your router? it will be on it somewhere, possibly on the back or the bottom, may be on a sticker.
 
It is a bt homehub item number 027262. That is the only I.D. that I can see on the hub. I joined bt on August last year so the router is a fairly new model thanks again
 
Yes. It is a bout 20cm tall and 12cm wide with five operating lights at the top. At the base is a removable section to allow a bt hub phone to be connected. I realize this is a bit vague, but there is no name or make to be seen anywhere. the same router can be seen on BT.com's website, if that helps. thanks
 
ok i know the one, it is indeed a nat router, so dont be too concerned about software firewall.
 
I imagine, since you are online that it was preconfigured with your user details etc. Usually if this is the case then the default firewall rules apply. A baisc check can be found here (click proceed, then click test all ports) you will get a green/blue/red thingy, I should imagine you will see either all green, or green with some blue. Although it may say "fail", if you have no red then I wouldnt be at all worried.
 
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