Appliance testing - none of you would do this would you ?
- Thread starter SimonH2
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No, I will not **** drop it until someone can show me where I've claimed that virtualisation is a catch-all solution.
Ha ha, rofl, lmao, lol and other tiring internet-tropes. Okdokey, BAS, if it makes you feel better I'll let you win.
No doubt you'll now crow that I am unable to come up with a reasoned counter-argument but it's actually because I'm going to move on with my diynot life now
Enjoy!
S
SaladFingers
Bless you, darling x
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No - it's because you are a ****.No doubt you'll now crow that I am unable to come up with a reasoned counter-argument but it's actually because I'm going to move on with my diynot life now
No - it's because you are a ****.No doubt you'll now crow that I am unable to come up with a reasoned counter-argument but it's actually because I'm going to move on with my diynot life now
Hey! We could have a vote
see who people think is the biggest **** (what is that, by the way?).Honestly, I enjoy reading your electrical posts - no idea why this one is so important to you, but knock yourself out!
S
SaladFingers
No - it's because you are a ****.No doubt you'll now crow that I am unable to come up with a reasoned counter-argument but it's actually because I'm going to move on with my diynot life now
Now now, losing your temper and resulting in personal attacks and insults is not very adult like is it. A man of your age and condition ought to know better.
And I've no idea why it's so important to people to take my simple suggestion that virtualising in a way which enables VM migration allows servers to be evacuated and then add inventions of their own so that they can then falsely claim I'm saying things which are wrong and that therefore I don't know what I'm talking about.
But it seems that it is.
This, for example:
Still waiting for him to show where I suggested that.
Or this:
I didn't make all of those claims either.
Or this:
I never said all of those things.
You know a couple of classic signs of a troll, BAS?
1. Constantly hammering home on a single point and becoming more and more irate that people are unable to see your point of view.
2. Resorting to insults and name-calling when #1 is not working.
Honestly, man, give it a rest. Count back through this thread and see the number of times where I've given you some respect for your knowledge of all things electrical. I'm not looking for anything in return - honestly - you really need to move on from this.
1. Constantly hammering home on a single point and becoming more and more irate that people are unable to see your point of view.
2. Resorting to insults and name-calling when #1 is not working.
Honestly, man, give it a rest. Count back through this thread and see the number of times where I've given you some respect for your knowledge of all things electrical. I'm not looking for anything in return - honestly - you really need to move on from this.
S
SaladFingers
Most of us glaze over when we see that he's responded (began to argue) in these here threads.
Indeed, and like the boy who cried wolf, it diminishes the impact when he does have something positive to add.
And for BAS, lets look back in the thread. There was comment raised about finding a window to shut stuff down. Your response, without any "if's","but's", etc was "So virtualise them all, then you can move the VMs and empty the physical server."
This (in the context everyone read it apparently) seems to imply that applying virtualisation is a panacea for the issue of finding a suitable window for a shutdown. In most businesses, having a planned shutdown of a server isn't a problem - OK, there are indeed a fair number where it is a problem, but for most it isn't.
No mention at this point that "Just virtualise it" doesn't mention the trebling (or more) of the cost of the hardware, and god knows how much extra for software licences (VMWare aren't doing too badly
)Later you added that "Automation tools worth their salt should pick up on circular dependencies." I've yet to see an explanation of how any automation tool will handle the genuine circular dependency we have, especially when one of the items involved is not something that's going to get virtualised. So no "Score 3 for virtualisation - you don't have to run multiple services in one VM if you don't want to." here.
Then finally, having stated that automation tools will solve our dependency problem, you add "No tool will do everything" which is effectively all that people had been telling you. And add "of course you'll need to customise it and quite possibly have to write some scripts" - in other words, we could write some scripts to handle it (and which would be completely unrelated to virtualisation). Well "Durrr", yes we could, but as I pointed out, if it only takes a few minutes to manually deal with it once in a blue moon, why spend a lot of time automating it ? There is also the problem that I wouldn't be able to actually test the scripts without duplicating more of our setup than we have spare hardware to be able to do - and even then it couldn't be an identical clone.
And now, barely 1/2 way down page two we get "I thought I could take it as read that without all server resources virtualised and without a common storage and network infrastructure shared by source and target then live migration won't work."
Guess what, I know far more virtualisation installs that do NOT have all that expensive overhead than do. Unless you are working in a very high end environment, I'd expect that to be the case for most people - obviously that is conjecture based on observation rather than a hard fact before you criticise me for that. So now an admission that "Just virtualise it" now means "double your server capacity, add backend storage that probably costs more than the servers, and the infrastructure to link them, and the software to glue it all together".
So BASs solution :
while what nearly everyone else wants is :
No need to shut down with this system.
You know a couple of classic signs of a ****, skotl?
1. Wilfully twisting what someone says and then criticising them for being wrong to say things they never actually said.
2. Resorting to accusing them of being a troll when they refuse to allow the **** to get away with 1.
S
SaladFingers
Not that your resorts to name calling, personal insults and constant sniping aren't, of course.
My comment about virtualisation was made in the context of it being a problem.
So?No mention at this point that "Just virtualise it" doesn't mention the trebling (or more) of the cost of the hardware, and god knows how much extra for software licences (VMWare aren't doing too badly
Do the costs mean that it doesn't work?
Do the costs mean that it's OK for you to immediately come back with "Says the man demonstrating a politicians level of knowledge of technical matters
"?And if you want to argue about costs then please consider the savings which result from driving up levels of utilisation.
Whether 100% of them can ultimately be resolved is one thing, but are you denying that such tools can discover them?
I see.
So a less than 100% coverage means complete failure, and utter uselessness of the tools and techniques etc, does it, and your example means that nobody, anywhere, can ever get any benefits from them?
Your example means that there are no situations where it becomes easier to start up servers with dependencies if you can have, in effect dozens of discrete servers instead of just a few?
What you said was this:
Of course no one tool will "do all that and more" as you seem to think I was claiming. But that does not mean that what a particular tool does is of no value. Somewhere in the garage I've got a piston ring compressor. Unbelievably useful when reassembling pistons to insert into a cylinder block, but does the fact that it won't also torque the head bolts mean that it's useless, I shouldn't have it, and that anybody who extolls the benefit of them should be castigated?
I said that the VM manager MAY have automation tools.
That means it MAY NOT.
So does that mean that if a virtualisation product has no such feature that it's no good?
No reason at all.
My apologies - I guess I just hadn't realised that every single IT shop in the world was exactly like yours, and that because it's not a problem for you then it's not a problem for anybody, anywhere, and that therefore nobody can benefit from automation and all vendors of such tools are charlatans.
Thank you for clarifying that.
And can those people move live VMs from one server to another?
My apologies - I hadn't realised that the fact that some things need to be done in a certain way if you want them to work in a certain way was so offensive to you that you would immediately start attacking anybody who pointed out that they could work in a certain way.
But double your server capacity? You might like to do some reading up on statistical multiplexing and the central limit theory, and how they apply to virtualised servers.
Anyway - glad you're back, perhaps now you can address this:
I said that where, exactly?
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