PAT Testing Questions

[Deleted member 18243]

I'm about to start a large PAT testing project. I passed my C&G PAT testing exam a few weeks ago, but this job will be the first time I will have done PAT testing outside college.

I've had a look at some of the appliances I'll be testing and have the following questions... hope some of you can help:

1) There is a fridge, whose rating plate says 90 watts yet it has a 13a fuse in the plug. (I'm supposed to check for correct fuses in plugs and change any that are wrong.) Why does it have such a high fuse? Do I need to change it? Am I missing something on the rating plate? It is an average sized household fridge, but in an office kitchen. It has had a 13a fuse since new, ie it is a factory-fitted fuse.

2) Tests on electronic equipment. I know that IT equipment has to be "soft" tested, rather than use the 25a earth bond test and high-voltage insulation resistance test, but I'm unsure about whether I should soft-test equipment such as fridges, dishwashers and microwaves. These are not IT appliances, but they are modern, and have sophisticated electronics in them: timers, programmers etc, so do I soft-test these or do the full 25a earth bond test and 500v insulation resistance?

3) Do I PAT test so-called "Fixed" installations? We have hand dryers and water heaters that are screwed to walls and wired to fused spurs. From what I can deduce from the PAT testing code of practice I should test these items, but I've been told by various people that I shouldn't. What is the answer? Note that one of the water heaters is connected via a 13a plug, rather than a fused spur, and its neutral pin shows signs of overheating.

4) If I should PAT test the fixed water heaters and hand driers, referring to question 2, should I "soft" or "hard" test them, as they have electronic circuitry.

Phew! Bit of a minefield so far. Thanks.

 

[RF Lighting]

1) There is a fridge, whose rating plate says 90 watts yet it has a 13a fuse in the plug. (I'm supposed to check for correct fuses in plugs and change any that are wrong.) Why does it have such a high fuse? Do I need to change it? Am I missing something on the rating plate? It is an average sized household fridge, but in an office kitchen. It has had a 13a fuse since new, ie it is a factory-fitted fuse.

Fridges often have a high inrush current as the compressor motor starts. It only lasts breifly but might be enough to pop a 3A fuse.

2) Tests on electronic equipment. I know that IT equipment has to be "soft" tested, rather than use the 25a earth bond test and high-voltage insulation resistance test, but I'm unsure about whether I should soft-test equipment such as fridges, dishwashers and microwaves. These are not IT appliances, but they are modern, and have sophisticated electronics in them: timers, programmers etc, so do I soft-test these or do the full 25a earth bond test and 500v insulation resistance?

Personally I've never had any trouble carrying out a normal test on white goods, even the fancy ones. I'd let a few others say what they think too.

3) Do I PAT test so-called "Fixed" installations? We have hand dryers and water heaters that are screwed to walls and wired to fused spurs. From what I can deduce from the PAT testing code of practice I should test these items, but I've been told by various people that I shouldn't. What is the answer? Note that one of the water heaters is connected via a 13a plug, rather than a fused spur, and its neutral pin shows signs of overheating.

What does the P A in PAT 'test' stand for?

If they are fixed appliances they they do not require testing. The heater with a damaged plug I would fail, and also if the socket shows any sign of damage then alert whoever is responsible for that sort of maintenence.

4) If I should PAT test the fixed water heaters and hand driers, referring to question 2, should I "soft" or "hard" test them, as they have electronic circuitry.

Hopefully the answers above should answer this for you

 

[Grizzly]

3) Do I PAT test so-called "Fixed" installations? We have hand dryers and water heaters that are screwed to walls and wired to fused spurs. From what I can deduce from the PAT testing code of practice I should test these items, but I've been told by various people that I shouldn't. What is the answer?

Yes, the IEE CoP covers fixed, hard wired equipment as well as portable.

Do they need testing? Yes, they should be part of an appropriate inspection, testing and maintenance regime, just like portable appliances.

Are you the person who should do that inspection & testing? Most probably not.
I can say that the C&G 2377 course wouldn't have covered subjects such as the safe isolation & disconnection of such equipment, and it doesn't sound like you've had any other training or experience of doing such things, so I doubt you'd be classed as competent to carry out such work.
[Edit: sorry, reading you other thread, it appears you are on C&G 2330, so you may well have the necessary training]

However, if you do notice anything untoward with hardwired equipment, you should report it to the appropriate people, so any issues can be dealt with.
Somebody should be responsible for the inspection & testing of hardwired appliances, just not yourself in this case.

Note that one of the water heaters is connected via a 13a plug, rather than a fused spur, and its neutral pin shows signs of overheating.

That's a different kettle of fish (pardon the pun).
As the water heater is connected via a plug rather than a fused connection unit, then you should treat it like any other 'portable' appliance, and inspect & test accordingly.

 

[JACKC]

Personally I do test any equipment that is connected to the fixed installation via a fscu. The Code of Practise calls for it and when else would it get inspected and tested, its not done in any PIR as this stops at the feed side of the fscu. It is a decision only you can make with the training you have had. Someone gets hurt but it doesn't matter because it is not portable, you are being paid to do a job so follow the COP, page 1. "What needs testing".

 

[Weavertronix]

Remember the manufacturer can overide any regulations, and can therefore specify a higher rated fuse than you might otherwise use; you might find a 13A fuse in a computer for example.

Basically only use a soft test for IT equipment.

Everything not tested under a periodic would need testing. It might be called 'Portable Appliance Testing', but you still need to test the handheld equipment, moveable equipment, transportable equipment, fixed equipment etc.

 

[Grizzly]

Everything not tested under a periodic would need testing. It might be called 'Portable Appliance Testing', but you still need to test... fixed equipment etc.

ONLY if the tester is competent to do so!
A lot of people who do PAT (particulary in-house testers) are certainly not, and should not just steam in to fixed, hardwired appliance inspection & testing, just because it's covered in the CoP!

 

[Weavertronix]

True, but it should still be tested, which is one of the reasons I don't think anyone who has only done a 2 day course and a multiple guess test should be allowed to do it.

When I did the 2377 I was told the correct procedure would be for a non-electrician to get an electrician to disconnect the equipment for them to test, then reconnect it.

Just read another post by the OP and it seems he's also doing C&G 2330.

 

[ericmark]

I'm about to start a large PAT testing project. I passed my C&G PAT testing exam a few weeks ago, but this job will be the first time I will have done PAT testing outside college.

I've had a look at some of the appliances I'll be testing and have the following questions... hope some of you can help:

1) There is a fridge, whose rating plate says 90 watts yet it has a 13a fuse in the plug. (I'm supposed to check for correct fuses in plugs and change any that are wrong.) Why does it have such a high fuse? Do I need to change it? Am I missing something on the rating plate? It is an average sized household fridge, but in an office kitchen. It has had a 13a fuse since new, ie it is a factory-fitted fuse.

The standard fuses are 3 and 13 and in a plug are to protect the cable not the appliance so if cable is thick enough using a 13A fuse is acceptable however fridge and freezer are a problem as they have timed and event selected options and the motor or heater does not run all the time. On cheaper models unplugging as one enters room and testing last often the motor will run but with timed de-frost only way involves some dismantling and really a maintenance contract is the way they should be tested.

2) Tests on electronic equipment. I know that IT equipment has to be "soft" tested, rather than use the 25a earth bond test and high-voltage insulation resistance test, but I'm unsure about whether I should soft-test equipment such as fridges, dishwashers and microwaves. These are not IT appliances, but they are modern, and have sophisticated electronics in them: timers, programmers etc, so do I soft-test these or do the full 25a earth bond test and 500v insulation resistance?

The reason for soft test is the earth goes through the printed circuit so any items likely to have earth connected to printed circuit are soft tested nothing to do with having electronics so dishwasher has 25A test.

3) Do I PAT test so-called "Fixed" installations? We have hand dryers and water heaters that are screwed to walls and wired to fused spurs. From what I can deduce from the PAT testing code of practice I should test these items, but I've been told by various people that I shouldn't. What is the answer? Note that one of the water heaters is connected via a 13a plug, rather than a fused spur, and its neutral pin shows signs of overheating.

PAT testing is just a phrase and really it should be called In service testing of electrical equipment and there are two tests completed in the building the (1) Installation (2) Appliances and the latter can be sub-divided into covered by maintenance contract and general the latter should all be tested by the "PAT" tester. The general can be sub-divided and we have Hand Held, Portable, Moveable etc but to say that is hand held not portable so I'm not testing it would be silly in the same was as saying it is moveable not portable so you either test or advise the item should be on a maintenance contract. Clearly the 5 ton bottling plant in a factory is not "PAT" tested and it would have some type of maintenance contract but timed items like washing machines also need maintenance contract as you can't test without opening up the appliance unless you are prepared to allow it to complete cycle while under test!

4) If I should PAT test the fixed water heaters and hand driers, referring to question 2, should I "soft" or "hard" test them, as they have electronic circuitry.

Phew! Bit of a minefield so far. Thanks.

The hand held hair drier supplied through a fused connection unit must be the PAT testers nightmare. It is hand held so he must test it but to test he has to isolate elsewhere disconnect and use one of these temp connection blocks to connect to PAT tester then to re-install and this is very time consuming. Giving max time ticket 4 years helps but when quoting for PAT testing you need to watch out for items like that. You could write out a contract saying PAT testing only included xyz and any uvw items will need abc but I think most firms will accept the hired coke machine is not on your list but expect you to take rough with smooth and that you will test hand drier every 4 years.

Having said that I am sure many people choose to ignore items they don't want to test. And at the end of the day it is down to the manager to ensure all electrical items are tested not the PAT tester. When testing in a Dairy Crest factory I was presented with the register and told test as many of them as you can and mark down any you can't find. And that is the way it should be done. Not wandering around and selecting what one fancies.

 

[ericmark]

I have re-read through some of the other replies. And I will point out we as a company would send people to do the PAT testing course and they would pop into the maintenance department and book out tester and do the testing.

But all the items they tested had been first tested by an electrician and the test type selected so as they selected an item they would enter the pre-selected test code and then follow the on screen instructions they were never asked to test anything involving and dismantling.

The course taught them more than they needed to know and this worked well but no way would we have allowed them to do first test on any item type as it is too easy to make a mistake.

Even time served electricians make mistakes we had a mag mount drill which had been PAT tested many times as a class II item before it was realised the drill only was class II the base was class I and the earth had become disconnected. Had some one been injured then we would have had to prove a duty of care had been completed and the firm would likely pass this test as they had used an electrician not a semi-skilled person to classify the test. And insurance would have covered. However if a semi-skilled person had done first test then duty of care would have been likely questioned.

Although I can see the place for a cards in employed semi-skilled PAT tester I think to go self employed doing PAT testing where there is no more qualified person to refer to when odd items turn up is folly. I have never tried to get professional indemnity insurance when one is not a professional. And of course with PAT testing you are giving a professional opinion and professional indemnity insurance would be required rather than personally liability insurance.

If you are not working cards in, in other words the buck stops with you. Then I would not consider you have the warranty of skill to PAT test and I would think if something went wrong you would not be able to prove otherwise. The HSE are very unforgiving once they get their teeth in and you will not pull the wool over their eyes they know exactly that the PAT testing course teaches and unless you can show you had the warranty of skill then look out. And of course once something has gone wrong that kind of proves you didn't have the skill.

 

[STI]

Just to add on the fixed equipment. You can as a PAT tester agree with your client how these are to be approached. For example you can carry out a formal visual (from your post you will be sufficiently competent to take a plate off a wall) and an earth continuity check (if relevant) from the supply to the appliance, and leave it at that. My experience has been 90% of faults are found in the visual inspection and as long as the earth (if required) is in place there is some protection in the event of a fault. Or do the full isolate disconnect inspect test reconnect service at extra cost/time penalty.

Also on your question about fuse ratings, very often fridges etc will have the 13a fuse fitted for the reasons others have stated, you will also find than many of your IEC leads for your CPU, MONITORS PRINTERS etc also have relatively high fuse ratings for the appliances VA rating, (that is if you can find the rating plate on the IT equipment in the first place. ).

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Thanks for all the replies, especially EricMark who has gone into some detail.

I am satisfied with the answers to Question 1.

Question 2 splits opinion. I am inclined not to use the "normal" test on any white goods because they all now have circuitry which includes semiconductors. I found this old thread in which someone suggests doing the IT test on such items:

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1200824

So, would there be any problems doing the IT test on dishwashers and fridges?

(Note that if I cannot get a satisfactory answer about this I will not test the white goods and will advise the firm to get somebody else in to do them.)

Actually, I cannot think of any appliance, apart from leads, in the business on which I can perform the normal (ie 25a earth / 500v IR) test. Well, except for desk fans - and many of these are class 2.

Question 3 (and 4) is as I thought - fixed appliances are included in the IEE CoP and have to be tested but not necessarily by me. I will test the hand dryers and water heaters, as I am competent to safely isolate them, but will not touch the photocopiers, gas boilers and vending machines, all of which are owned and maintained by hire companies.

EricMark I am puzzled about your description of how you PAT test a fridge! Why do you need to do all these things (wait for the motor to run? dismantle what? why?). According to what I have been taught, the only part of the test where the appliance is switched on is the functional check.

The CoP says:

The functional check is the last of the tests to be performed and it is simply a check to ensure that the item of equipment is working properly. The item of equipment is energized and it should work normally.

On a fridge this will be a case of patient observation, and in the current hot weather fridge motors are working hard anyway. Time is not a problem, I am not against the clock, so what is special about a fridge with regard to PAT testing? Note again, if the answer is something beyond my competence / confidence I will not test the fridges and will advise the firm to get somebody else in to do them.

Now just a bit about me regarding relevant competence etc: Although I am new to PAT testing I am not an electrical novice. I have worked in electronic and electrical manufacturing for 28 years, am experienced in assembly, test and repair, mainly in the field of electronics but I have done some panel work, and some electrical labouring. I have just completed my 2nd year of the C&G 2330 3-year course.

Thanks again everybody who has helped.

 

[plugwash]

[quote="ericmark";p="1657133" unless you are prepared to allow it to complete cycle while under test!

Afaict most pat testers can't handle a load as big as a washer for that kind of duration though .

Phew! Bit of a minefield so far. Thanks.

The hand held hair drier supplied through a fused connection unit must be the PAT testers nightmare. It is hand held so he must test it but to test he has to isolate elsewhere disconnect and use one of these temp connection blocks to connect to PAT tester then to re-install and this is very time consuming. Giving max time ticket 4 years helps[/quote]
But how would you justify giving it such a long ticket time? especially if it's in a public place where it's liable to damage and/or is class 1.

 

[ericmark]

First the IT test. Although I don't think you should use the IT test on items which are not likely to have an earth connected by a printed circuit it would do no real harm and if not sure then the IT test is the way to go.

Washing machines freezers and some other items don't use all the parts at the same time or continuous if we look at a simple freezer then if we turn it off as we enter the room likely by time we come to test it will be warm enough for the motor to run. And unless the motor runs then the switches are not made and it's like testing a drill without pulling the trigger. Where the record is automatic it is plane what has happened as it would register zero amps in test. More complex freezers will have an auto defrost (i.e. Frost free) and this only runs a few times a day so very unlikely it will run while your testing it and the only method is to dismantle and test with a megger. The same applies to a washing machine with two heaters and a motor one for steam and other for water which don't come in until part way through cycle. Although you will have tested some items you will not have checked them all so you can't say you have tested them. However it says that maintenance one a regular basis is also accepted and as long as they are under a maintenance contract there is no need to PAT test which would seem the easy way out.

Dish washer would be the same.

As to fans I would test them as IT as often the only place where you can make contact with metal is the drive shaft and you don't want to put 25A through the bearings and also I would accept a high reading because it is going through bearings.

Extension leads are a hard one. If fitted with a RCD plug then you can go over with the ohms however if not then you did have to look at the sockets it may be plugged into and if they are RCD protected. But since 2008 all sockets 13A should be RCD protected and therefore it would be hard to fail a lead for being too long as the socket should have a RCD. A little sticker saying "This lead should only be used in RCD protected sockets" would be ideal but in the real world you have to decide if normally used in RCD protected sockets as I have never seen labels of that type.

You will find the odd items like the Class II lamp without the double square marking and you know it is Class II but you also know without the double square you should fail it. You have to consider the risk and make up your own mind. I would say I can't pass as there is no sticker but I will not stick on the red fail either and suggest may be it should be used in a domestic premises (i.e. they take it home).

The registers are a real problem too. When they don't have them your job is in some ways easier as you just print out a list and each year you re-number every item however there is then no trend shown. With registers there are always items missing. Working in-house we would send a list headed the following items were not found please present them to maintenance for testing before use. I didn't really care it was then up to them to find them. Often locked up in some ones draw or cupboard.

Working for outside firm we used the red do not use sticker, in-house they were removed from site and kept in a cage in workshop and entered in the Faulty equipment register and once repaired in the Repair register this was to protect us as not unknown for people to break in to retrieve their items.

In house we were the manager as well as tester. As a contractor we were only the tester.

It is all a case of watch ones back as when things go wrong no one will admit they peeled of the failed label and changed the date on label below it or even swapped labels with another device. One would think it was their money!

The one I saw a poor PAT tester get caught out with was a Allan Bradley PLC in the University which he passed even though the live terminals could be accessed without a tool and the vent holes were too big. The manual clearly stated it was designed to be used inside an enclosure and on the bottom of the report students were required to state any health and safety issues. So this was all high lighted as a result.

Don't assume because it is made by a well known manufacture it is designed correct. Grinders are often sold with simple on/off switch but "537.5.4.1 Motor control circuits shall be designed so as to prevent any motor from restarting automatically after a stoppage due to a fall in or loss of voltage, if such starting is liable to cause danger." means this is not permitted my cure was to use an active RCD plug. also "552.1.2 Every electric motor having a rating exceeding 0.37 kW shall be provided with control equipment incorporating means of protection against overload of the motor. This requirement does not apply to a motor incorporated in an item of current-using equipment complying as a whole with an appropriate British Standard." has to be watched for. Plus "552.1.3 Except where failure to start alter a brief interruption would be likely to cause greater danger, every motor shall be provided with means to prevent automatic restarting after a stoppage due to a drop in voltage or failure of Supply, where unexpected restarting of the motor might cause danger. These requirements do not preclude arrangements for starting a motor at intervals by an automatic control device, where other adequate precautions are taken against danger from unexpected restarting."

Thing is this was not part of the PAT testing course I did.

Also had a few arguments about guards. In theory if electrical sound you can put a pass sticker on a grinder with all its guards missing. But of course the user sees your sticker and uses it without realising the guards are missing most firms if asked will tell you to fail it even though not strictly failing a PAT test. Always worth asking their policy but not in writing in case you don't know a guard is missing.

Grinders and drills often have a button or latch so it can be made to run without your finger on the trigger from above that is to me a fail even though it is how they are designed. They are designed for domestic market not commercial.

Again you have to decide on if to make waves or not. I wrote an email to safety officer asking for a directive. i.e. Watch your back remember health and safety law says must be written down. Asking verbal will not do.

You may decide not to take any notice and with some firms it is not required and it is often said rules are made to be broken. But to me it is important to know when you are breaking the rules so you give write answer if asked. It is always I handed Mr X a note not I spoke to Mr X about this. Email is OK, as is a Fax but not a telephone call except to verify they have received the Fax.

Again it all down to watch your back. I am not saying do it. But you must say you do it. Remember the whole reason you are PAT testing is some one is watching their back if it was a lax firm they would not be PAT testing.

God I do go on don't I! Good night and best of luck.