Appliances in bathrooms

[BrianS]

Hi folks

I have spent a while trawling through the forum and following links (sadly quite a few no longer work - particularly the NICEIC ones) but haven't found a definitive answer to the question about whether I can install a washing machine and condenser drier in my bathroom.

I know this is a last resort but our bungalow is little (cruelly nicknamed "the Wendy House" by locals when first built apparently!) and we are trying to gain some room in the kitchen where these appliances are currently installed.

We have a 3m x 1.95m bathroom and I am going to make some room by removing the bath which we never use. I will be left with a shower cubicle, sink unit and toilet and quite a bit of space.

From what I understand about "Zones", I would be installing the machines (stacked with drier above w/m in a unit of some description - perhaps with doors that need a "tool" to open them) with their backs to a wall which is 1.82m from the shower cubicle.

The machines would get their power from non-switched fused sockets and I would get this part of the installation done by an electrician as I am pretty sure I will need a part P certificate in any case.

The missus visited a friend recently and got the idea from her bathroom which included a washing machine - this was a fairly recent build. Up until then we hadn't considered it and, even now, I am sceptical. However, it would make a fantastic difference to our kitchen if we could find a safe way of moving the appliances out!

Sorry for such a long question........

 

[Chivers7]

Though it's not something I'd feel comfortable installing in a bathroom is the room Rectangular?

Is there sufficient space to enclose the equipment in it's own cupboard that you could self build using wood and plasterboard with a door opening that would prevent water from the shower head getting anywhere near the washing machine and drier? It would definitley need 30mA RCD protection. Would you be able to make the bathroom smaller and move the door to it so the cupboard is technically outside the room??

Is the shower cubicle enclosed in a corner is the head fixed? What is the likely hood of someone being able to shower and actually get the equipment wet.

I'm not sure if you'll actually get an electrician willing to do this for you.

 

[salem2000]

This was sent to me from the IEE some time ago:

Provided the appliance is not portable, i.e. it is fixed or transportable, it may
be used in the bathroom as long as it is installed in zone 3 or beyond. It must
be directly wired or connected by means of a flexible cord to a fused
connection unit, a switch outlet plate or a cable outlet plate, All appliances
covered by this section need to be protected by a 30 mA R.C.D.
Note: Shavers may be used in bathrooms provided they are supplied by a
shaver unit, which is allowed to be installed in zone 2 even without an IP
rating.
Washing machines, tumble dryers, washer-dryers and other appliances rated
IPX4 may be sited in zone 2 if they cannot be reasonably sited in zone 3 or
beyond. When they are installed in zone 2, it is advisable to state the
justification on the installation certificate.

 

[BrianS]

Thanks for the reply!

The bathroom is rectangular and it will be possible to build the appliances into a unit that would prevent water being sprayed on them.

Although the shower does not have a fixed head, in normal use the only time the carpet gets damp is when I step out of the shower having forgotten to put down the bathmat - a determined person could cause a problem if they wished

Happy to install 30mA RCD protection.

Can't really move the door. The appliances must be accessible and convenient to use.

Maybe a pic would help - see:

http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2492660250057350080tyUwxT?vhost=entertainment

The bath will be gone and the appliances go in the corner where the bath taps sit.

Thanks again for your interest and help. Hope I can do it

 

[BrianS]

Salem2000 - thanks for you reply which arrived on the forum whilst I was putting together my reply to Chivers7 - things move fast on here

Looks like I may be home and dry and the project can go ahead.

Next stop is my electrician..

 

[Chivers7]

Salems post is quite useful and I suppose if you could build a cupboard for them it would keep your bathroom looking good still.

 

[salem2000]

We had the same prob some time ago, so I contacted the IEE for info.

What we did was use an IP rated fused connection unit rather than a standard one, not pretty but better all round, and local isolation was via pull switch, and a 30mA RCD was fitted.

Salem.

 

[JohnD]

You could put the appliances in the corner nearest the door. Would have to move shower but it could go where the bath taps are so plumbing available.

By putting a door on the appliance cupboard, hinge side towards the shower, it would be easy to carry things in and out, and the door would obstruct passage and spray between the shower and appliances, when opened.

 

[Taylortwocities]

You need to get hold of NICEIC's newsletter 139 supplement. this deals with it. I see the NICEIC have pulled all of the weblinks now (they dont work off the WIKI guys so maybe someone needs to sort out new ones from more helpful organisations).

But here's a copy of the relavent bit of text:

SOCKET-OUTLETS AND PROVISION FOR
CONNECTING PORTABLE AND OTHER
NON-FIXED EQUIPMENT

In the special location
Shaver supply units complying with BS EN 60742 Chapter
2, Section 1 and socket-outlets supplied by a SELV circuit
are permitted in a location containing a bath, a shower, or
a cabinet containing a shower and/or bath, but must be
installed outside of zones 0 and 1 (Regulation 601-08-01).

However in a room other than a bathroom or shower room
where a cabinet containing a shower and/or bath is
installed, socket-outlets, other than shaver supply units
complying with BS EN 60742 Chapter 2, Section 1 and
socket-outlets supplied by a SELV circuit, may be installed
outside zones 0, 1, 2 and 3, but only if protected by a
residual current device having a rated residual operating
current, I^n, not exceeding 30 mA, in accordance with
Regulation Group 412-06 (Regulation 601-08-02).

The provision for connecting portable equipment such
as a hair dryer by any means is precluded in zone 3 by
Regulation 601-08-01 and, by inference, in zones 0,1 and 2,
since these zones have a greater degree of risk of electric
shock.

It is however permissible to make provision in zone
3 for the connection of non-fixed current-using equipment
other than portable equipment, such as a washing
machine, provided it is protected by a residual current
device having a rated residual operating current, I^n, not
exceeding 30 mA, in accordance with Regulation Group
412-06 (Regulation 601-09-03). This requirement for
protection by a residual current device having a rated
residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA is not
applicable to SELV non-fixed current-using equipment.
The provision for connecting portable and other nonfixed
equipment by means other than through a socketoutlet
is not forbidden in the special location outside
zones 0, 1, 2 and 3.

So there. God has spoken.

BTW. If you are going to put an appliance in a bathroom first check with the manufacturer:
1. If it is suitable for use in a bathroom (eg steamy environment)
2. If by cutting off the moulded plug you invalidate the warranty or will restrict a service guy coming to work on it.

 

[breezer]

as an ex HP engineer, i would refuse to work on it if it were wired direcltly in. i.e via an fcu.

reason is i have to be able to unplug it to test it BEFORE (IR test) i work on it , then again when finished

 

[Taylortwocities]

That, too has been my experience and why I mentioned it.

Mind you, how about if there was some nice coffee and a plate of chocolate hobnobs on offer?

 

[breezer]

nope, it has to be tested before and after working on it

 

[Chivers7]

That, too has been my experience and why I mentioned it.

Mind you, how about if there was some nice coffee and a plate of chocolate hobnobs on offer?

Hard to say no...to the hob nobs that is

 

[BrianS]

Thanks again to everyone. Another project added to the list!

Must remember to get the Hobnobs in before asking the sparky around to do the quote

 

[Adam_151]

If it was that much of an issue, I'd disconnect it and stick a plug on it* which you were having your coffee and find you an extension cord

*or just use one of those blocks that clamps the three conductors and energises them when the cover is snapped down