Are all professionals, professional?

[sparkticus]

To what do either of you attribute the ability to 'be good at English'?
Is it intelligence, cleverness (there is a difference), caring, liking, logic, something else or is it 'just one of those things?

Obviously "being good at English" may conjure up several different perspectives on what being good at English actually means.

My interpretation is a generalisation of making reasonable efforts in spelling, grammar, logic and succinctness to be able to communicate a point effectively (more often than not)

It also (I believe) means listening/reading and comprehension with at least as much effort.

I don't think perfection is required in any one of the facets that I mention above but I do think it requires ( from time to time) some effort in imagining yourself being the recipient of our own "message" and evaluating any feedback.

If I had to nail it down to one of the things that you mentioned (I know you are not asking to have it nailed down to just one) I would have to nominate "caring" which I think is a universal trait required for any amount of sustainable success in anything.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes "professionalism" can be adopted by all. In this sense it is a culture not a title.

And the corollary is that not all amateurs are amateurish.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes "professionalism" can be adopted by all. In this sense it is a culture not a title.

And the corollary is that not all amateurs are amateurish.

Of course. As I said, some amateurs exhibit more 'professionalism' in their work than do some professionals.

No-one has talked about some of the reasons behind this. Professionals have to make a living out of what they are doing whilst, at the same time, charging customers a 'reasonable' price - which means having to restrict the amount of time they spend on a job to that which results in an acceptable price. On the other hand, 'amateurs' are often in a position to devote as much time to a task as is necessary in order to get as close to perfection as they wish. I'm sure that most professionals could do exactly the same if they had unlimited time, but most customers would not accept the corresponding 'unlimited price'!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ericmark]

What is a profession? There are a number of labels. A tradesman, A vocation (A nurse is a vocation). Semi-skilled. Skilled. The list goes on. In the main some one would went to university and has an education level of over three with exception of a nurse is considered a professional. And in the main people of that level will be responsible for their work and will as a result be salaried as they can not just say it's 5:30 so I'm going home. They have to work as the job demands.

Now if we look at the electrical trade we have a mixture. Some people will have to work flexible hours and will see the work to a safe conclusion. Others will be free to just report work as unfinished and go home.

Where the problem arises is where really the job should have been a salaried position but the skin flint boss has made it an hourly paid position. With northing in the contract as to having to complete work. And I have seen where an electrician has gone home leaving a board open with wires hanging out so the door could not be closed with part of the board live.

This is a problem as he said on his return next day how it was too much work to be completed in one day and he had told the boss he needed to leave on time to look after his child as his girl friend worked in local pub.
He did not seem to think it was his problem. And in a way he was right. He could have been called away at any time and there was no way he should have been working on a live board on his own. In fact he should not have been working on a live board. Luck I had gone to find him to give me a hand and was able to make the board safe.

Yes he should have refused to do the work. But get real that's not the way to keep ones job. He did as he was told. Our boss had made an error (personally I think it was in employing the guy but that's not the point) the error resulted in danger. But the question was really was the problem unforeseen? And by my boss yes it was. I know the electrician arrived at 10am instead of 7am and that's why the work was uncompleted and why he took short cuts and did not isolate the board.

But he was not a professional he was just a worker doing (as least while being watched) as he was told.

Often people try to behave like a professional when they are not. And the house holder employs a guy who is not a member of a professional body and is not in any way supervised and then wonders why the work is not up to scratch.

But often it is the professional who makes the mistake. I remember my solicitor with my first house telling me to either inspect myself or better employ some one to inspect. And a surveyor was appointed and the report considered. I was asked if I was happy and it was suggested that unless I was in a real hurry contracts should not be exchanged yet.

I could have taken the cheap option and not employed a surveyor and had I not then any faults were really my fault.

So the point of the tail. You get what you pay for.

 

[JohnW2]

What is a profession? There are a number of labels. A tradesman, A vocation (A nurse is a vocation). Semi-skilled. Skilled. The list goes on. In the main some one would went to university and has an education level of over three with exception of a nurse is considered a professional. And in the main people of that level will be responsible for their work and will as a result be salaried as they can not just say it's 5:30 so I'm going home. They have to work as the job demands.

I don't think it's really any longer helpful to attempt to distinguish between professions, vocations, trades, occupations etc. Nor do I think that distinction is really relevant to this discussion about 'professionalism' - which can be exhibited by a cleaner or factory worker just as much as by a brain surgeon.

Nor does the method of remuneration (salary or 'piece work') really prove very much. The traditionally major professions/vocations (e.g. medicine, nursing, law, accountancy etc.) all contain a mixture of people who are salaried and others who are paid per time/work done.

It would probably be better if we simply talked about people, in whatever walk of life, who do (or do not) 'take pride in their work'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkticus]

It would probably be better if we simply talked about people, in whatever walk of life, who do (or do not) 'take pride in their work'.

Exactly.