Are the new regulations for real?

[laurence peddle]

Hi,
Since we moved in to this bungalow four years ago, I've done the following electrical work:
1/ Ran armoured cable from house socket with RCD up garden to shed via two weatherproof boxes containing outdoor power sockets, and with a socket and lights in the shed itself.

2/ Installed several power socket spurs in house (not in bathroom), always making sure that the spur was not itself running from a spur.

3/Converted wi-fi broadband PC and TV to Ethernet cable running in loft spaces and down or up walls.

4/ Installed inline extractor fan in ceiling void above shower in shower room, having cut into switch live cable by mistake, now being rectified.

5/ Replaced wall extractor fan in shower room with fan with built-in pull cord switch and timer. Such fans, as explained on this site in last post, do not provide for the timer to be run if the pull cord switch is used to operate the fan, as opposed to a light switch or other independent switch. Luckily, there's a workaround involving re-wiring the fan. This does, of course, invalidate the guarantee; but my point, with regard to possible breach of regulations, is that I have tampered with the actual fan wiring. It works, by the way, and I learnt how to re-wire the fan from an online expert on this site.

6/ Am still studying how to replace kitchen cooker re-circulating hood with extractor fan hood vented along ceiling void and through soffit. So assume that I have done the work.

I already know that according to the regulations I should at least call in a certified electrician to sign all this work off, or some of it.
My questions are as follows. I am, as I have just made clear, and as is obvious anyway from my posts on this site, a non-electrician who is aware of his limitations and always prepares for any electrical project by studying and asking questions, with others being asked as the work proceeds.
What I want to know is whether, in practice as opposed to theory, I run one of two risks.
The first is the risk of having any insurance claim rejected if, say, there's an electrical fire. What I want to know is how great is that risk, in practice. I emphasis in practice because I'm hoping I won't get replies that take no account of the actual risk, which could be very slight.
Secondly, I'd like to know, and I realise that this is a difficult question, what the risk is of my making a serious mistake when doing the kind of work I've listed.
I should point out that when I was installing the inline fan and looking at the wiring for the shower room lights, I found that the electrician had used block terminals with numerous cables having their wires twisted together and inserted into the blocks, the whole thing tied together with tape.
When I removed the tape one wire was loose and there were scorch marks on the cables, so that it all needs re-doing.
So I'll be asking advice yet again on this site.
My point is that the work was done by a qualified electrician and it was obvious, even to me, that it was unsafe.
There must be many thousands of DIY practitioners doing the kind of electrical work I've listed, so it would be very helpful to have a realistic assessment of risk, as I have asked for.
I know that the temptation, especially for electricians, will be to give a stern reply, but what I' hoping is that the replies will be informative and will go beyond the fact, as we all know it to be, that some of the work I've done should, according to the regulations, be signed off officially or even not done at all but left to qualified electricians to do.
Thanks for reading this, and I'd be very interested to know what the experts think.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I already know that according to the regulations I should at least call in a certified electrician to sign all this work off, or some of it.

Which regulations? In which part of the UK do you live?


As for risks, there are these:

Unknown unknowns. If you do electrical work on the basis of asking questions about what you realise you don't know then there's the risk that you'll miss something because you simply have no idea it even exists, and just don't realise you don't know it.

Testing. 1/ and 2/ above are particularly good examples of where testing is very important so that you know that safety devices are going to work properly when required. There can be things wrong which are undetectable in use. A bit like having faulty airbags and inertia reels in your car - you'd have no idea right up to the fraction of a second before you go through the windscreen.

 

[ericmark]

a non-electrician who is aware of his limitations

The question is how can a non electrician be aware of his limitations? As an electrician I have made errors, and I have had problems with the safety of the installation.

Watching ones peers does not show everything required.

So an example, simple request, I want a 32A three phase socket there so I can plug in the shrink wrap machine. So 6 mm² will take the power, however I did question the volt drop, but told "it will be OK"? I knew I should have worked it out, but I didn't, the volt drop was too much, and the machine failed to work.

In the main with domestic the cable runs are short, and also domestic machines don't tend to be so fussy on voltage, but never the less either volt drop or the ability for the automatic disconnection device to work within the allowed time means we do from time to time need to calculate, and measure.

So jobs it is clear the loop impedance is going to be well within limits, others one knows it will be on the edge so calculations and testing is a must.

Today I don't use a slide rule, I have a java script program so I can work it all out with ease, so I know with a 16A MCB to be within volt drops for lights with 2.5 mm² 25 meters of cable is about the limit. And I know with a Ze of 0.35Ω I can expect to see 0.94Ω at end of 25 meters of cable. So if I made a mistake and ran 1.5 mm² in error, I would measure 1.3Ω still within the limit for a type B to trip, but volt drop would be around 11.6 volt, yes it would work, and still safe but I would be aware there was some thing wrong. And I would hunt to find out what, be it a poor connection or wrong size cable, I would know there is some thing wrong and would find out what.

When one tests cable daily you get a feel for what the results should be, you may not work out every set of test results, but you do know when the results are wrong, however as an apprentice I had to work them out, I could not instinctively realise when the results were wrong.

I have put in new supplies and found the readings not as expected and the fault was nothing to do with my work, so it not just a case of doing it carefully.

I could not care less about regulations, or laws, what I do care about is if it's safe.

 

[laurence peddle]

Hi ban-all-sheds. You are right about the difficulty of knowing one's limitations. What if some risk is incurred that I know nothing about? In fairness, it's more that I do know something about it but not enough to be able to ask the right questions. I know about the risk of overloading a circuit, for instance, but not enough to be able to test beforehand, or to take adequate steps to forestall it. But again I have to be fair to myself. For instance, I've extended some power circuits by one or two double sockets, but I know that they are not going to be used for anything other than a PC and printer. To add more, I would first of all gather information on circuit overload and testing. I don't have time, so I would not extend the circuit any further. With cutting into the wrong cable to feed the fan with electricity, it never occurred to me to check for switch live. But it does now, and I'm using a multimeter to find the right cable. My biggest worry is the garden electrics system, and I think I will get a qualified electrician in to check it. It bypasses Part P, or so I was told on a garden forum, because the armoured cable runs from a household socket. My concern, in any case, is with safety, so I'll call someone in. But one has to be realistic. People are not going to call in an electrician just to add a socket, or not if they are confident up to a point, as I am. Another reason is that the regulations, especially Part P, are far from clear. Thanks for your help.

 

[Taylortwocities]

How can a plug and socket “bypass” Part P?

All electrical work must comply with P1.
You’ll find the Statutory Instrument here
https://www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:part_p:Statutory-Instrument

 

[EFLImpudence]

It bypasses Part P, or so I was told on a garden forum, because the armoured cable runs from a household socket.

That's a good example. I know what you mean - but you don't.

New circuits are notifiable to the Building Control. Extending an existing circuit is not, but it makes no difference to a registered electrician.
However, that is nothing to do with Part P.


Part P: This is it in its entirety. There is no more.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Probably best if the OP doesn’t seek electrical advice on a gardening forum then

 

[laurence peddle]

Hi ericmark. Again I agree with what you say, about knowing one's limitations. It's a matter of degree, of course, because even an experienced electrician can overlook some risk factors, as you pointed out.. But I do go to a lot of trouble to study the project beforehand, and I do try to make up for my ignorance in various ways. When installing the inline shower fan, for instance, I used 1.5mm, not 1mm squared cable, and even that was over a very short run of a couple of metres, excluding the cable to the switch. Again, I've added some power sockets around the house, but I won't add any more until I know how to test for overload, and so on. It's not a question of is there a risk to safety. Of course there is, but the question is whether it's an acceptable risk. Is it acceptable in the way that driving a car is? But driving a vehicle on public roads is the most dangerous everyday activity of them all.Thanks very much for your help. I wish I knew as much about electrics as you do. I'm very good at cement work, though, and I don't, in the main, have to worry about building regulations, or not for the kind of landscaping project I like doing. There's no part P for building a garden wall, and you don't have to prove competence, which is probably just as well.

 

[laurence peddle]

Hi EFLImpudence. Thanks for that. I'll definitely get an electrician in to look at the garden electrics. I can always pay him or her in plants. Why are there no female electricians, I wonder. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Thanks for copying in the part P document. Is it really that vague? thanks again.

 

[laurence peddle]

Hi Tailortwocities. I'm sure you are right about that, and lots of garden accidents are electrical in one way or another, especially if ponds are involved . Thanks again.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Why are there no female electricians, I wonder.

Well. there are a few.

Other than saying not many women want to do it - understandably - I will get into trouble saying more in today's climate of nonsense.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

One fairly economic way for you to verify some of the details of your wiring (like do the RCDs operate within spec, are the RFCs actually rings) would be to get a self-certifying electrician to conduct an EICR. This is usually £100-£150 odd and is really an MOT- they are not going to verify that every cable is in a safe zone but they will check that any MCBs and RCDs are fitted, correctly rated (as far as they can determine) and working correctly, that socket polarities are correct etc etc. You can aid the process (beforehand) by drawing up some as fitted sketches showing what is powered from where and how they'll be useful next time you want to add or change something.

 

[ericmark]

How can a plug and socket “bypass” Part P?

There was a firm called Blagdon who made garden electrical systems to comply with the pre-constructed loop hole so you could simply plug and play.

I did not like the system, and now only really needed for Wales, really needs a touch on petroleum jelly, and looking at them it seems they have changed now so not all plug and socket as they were when first they came out as a way around the Part P regulations.

 

[AndyPRK]

Someone recently quoted, plugging a circuit in via 13a plug does not mean it doesn’t have to comply with regulations

 

[mattylad]

Laurence, as you have found out yourself, just because someone has qualified as an electrician does not mean that they can do the job right, do it well or safely.
In fact the opposite is often true, of all the electricians I have met I'd only say 1 or 2 did a good job, the others were usually more than happy to do crap work.

Which is why we DIY stuff, because for some of us when it's DIY'd those of us who like to do things right can make a good job of it, spend the time to make it aesthetically pleasing as well as safe, correct and working well.

If what you have done fits the above line then you keep on going, learn what you can, read & understand the regs (ha thats a joke - electricians need a book to explain the regs to them!) and learn more every time you have something new.

I'm not a qualified electrician, but the safety, quality and accuracy of my work puts the so called qualified electricians I know to shame, I'm not throwing away good money just because someone thinks they need to be qualified to work with electricity.