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Are there any current toilets that more easily replace a low-level s-trap?

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by c128, 24 Apr 2016.

  1. c128

    c128

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    Hi,

    From searching here, I can see the general thing about moving a vertical toilet waste for a close-coupled toilet has been gone over quite a few times, but I was a bit intrigued by the last post on this thread:

    http://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/move-the-soil-pipe.69832/#post-473695

    We've got a similar situation as the OP above, except our waste is in a concrete floor. It's a 1950s bungalow, where the separate toilet room itself is only 0.78m x 1.19m; with central heating pipe work going in to a radiator in the floor too, digging it out looks like it would be a big/tricky job.

    As the room is small, any replacement toilet needs to be as close to the wall as possible - the front-edge of the pan should definitely be no further out then what we have as it's quite tight now. Ideally we'd like to squeeze in a tiny sink in one of the corners...which would be difficult, if just about possible, with the current toilet - more space would be better.

    Here's what we have, in terms of the toilet/waste:


    Not so much worried about the price, if it solves the problem, but searching about hasn't really thrown anything up.

    Does anyone know of any close coupled toilets out there that are more accommodating to a vertical waste with the above sort of distance from the wall?

    TIA.
     
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  3. c128

    c128

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    So - I've found some specs for one of those toilets in the linked post, since posting this thread:

    https://www.mytub.co.uk/product_images/Refresh_CC_WC.pdf

    The measurements on my picture are the best I could make them (limited space to get in there :( ), but it seems like the Entice RE1145WH pan waste has a centre at 225mm from the wall, whereas mine is ~250mm.

    If I'm reading this right, would that be suitable(-ish) if the cistern was suitably mounted away from the wall by ~25mm?

    Anyone know of any other close coupled options that are in the same sort of ballpark?

    Thanks.
     
  4. c128

    c128

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    So, from what I can gather, the Twyford Entice/Refresh etc. seem to be discontinued - I can't find anywhere that actually has stock, when you get to the point of ordering.

    There is this Laufen that looks like it would do the job, and seems to be available (albeit from limited places):

    http://www.just-laufen.co.uk/laufen...ed-toilet-bottom-inlet-824958000231-663-p.asp

    ...but the projection for that is 700mm, which is only 20mm less than what we currently have. Does seem quite nice though, and it would fit, but the Entice/Refresh would have saved a bit more space.

    Quite hard to actually search for stuff based on the criteria - I'm guessing it's a bit a niche thing these days, as most folk have a waste in a more flexible place...

    Anyone know of anything else out there that might accommodate the waste, where it is, in the top pic?

    Thanks.
     
  5. Nige F

    Nige F

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    Have a google for short projection WC pan. Combine with a Mac Alpine ?shaped pan connector ;) Sorry I can't post links etc. but a fair number of options appeared when I did a search.
     
  6. c128

    c128

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    Thanks Nige.

    Quite a few come up, but I guess I had originally thought that a ? shaped connector would still leave me quite a distance from the wall, given the (rough) distances in the photo above for the waste, if I wanted a close coupled toilet? The space is pretty tight. Or are you thinking a short projection toilet with a bit of a gap/boxing in would give more space than the options that are built for a bit more flexibility with the waste position?
     
  7. c128

    c128

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    Hi,

    So....4 years later, and I've decided to look at this again :).

    This is partly because, about a year ago, I fitted a new seat to the old toilet - it was one that had the nylon bolts holding the bracket that were supposed to snap off when tightened enough. However, what actually happened, was that tightening the bolt snapped off the mount on the toilet itself; one of the seat mounts on the pan is currently epoxied on as a result - it's been fine for over a year, but obviously needs to be sorted.

    Anyway - I'm back looking at Laufen toilets that have a "Vario" outlet, specifically this one: https://www.laufen.com/catalogue/co...lushing-rim-outlet-horizontal-vertical-824958 .

    Thing is, their ?-neck "Vario" connection kit is going to have to connect to a salt glazed pipe that has been ground down to floor level - their own connection seems to look like this:
    Is that Laufen connection likely to fit correctly into a salt-glazed pipe (collar ground off etc.), or does it require something with a longer spigot?
    If the latter, is there a more suitable, "adjustable" ,?-neck connector that would adjust enough to work with that Laufen pan and not restrict the flow?

    Thanks.
     
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  9. JohnD

    JohnD

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    Did you look at the Twyfords E100 and Alcona?
     
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  10. c128

    c128

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    Thanks - yeah, have seen them in my "travels" trying to find something that'll fit. Not entirely sure they will, without a bit of faffing, and they seem a bit harder to get hold of than they once were.
    Also the Burlington ones, which would seem to be an "easier" fit, as they look to have some versions where the output of the trap will be virtually spot on where my existing pipe is, but I don't really like the look of them as much.

    Quite liking the look of that Laufen though - although not seen one in the flesh to know if it's *really* worth the premium they seem to charge, and I think I'm unlikely to be able to.
    My main concern is that the Laufen "Vario" fitting to connect to my salt-glazed pipe, which I suspect will end up looking like their left-hand picture here https://www.laufen.co.uk/en/products/features-benefits/sanitary-ware/vario-outlet when in place, won't fit well enough, and that there isn't something else I'll be able to replace/append to make it fit if I buy one and that ends up being the case - could be an expensive mistake!

    Unless I'm worrying about nothing, and that sort of short spigot on their fitting should be fine?

    Thanks.
     
  11. JohnD

    JohnD

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    I used an ordinary adaptor collar from screwfix, with rubber fins to seal into the old socket in the floor. I forget how long it was, maybe about six inches. It also has a rubber ring to seal onto the spigot on the pan. There is a Twyford adaptor collar but it was such a tight fit I discarded it.

    Mine was the E100 Round Premium BO, I got it from QS Supplies who had the best price at the time, but I don't think they list the BO now. It's still listed by Twyford as E11245WH. My cistern was about 15mm from the wall so I put spacers on the fixing screws. It flushes very well and I am pleased with it. Projection into room is small so I had space for a small corner basin. The "premium" has a sort of rounded china skirt, easy to clean, and hides the soil pipe.

    Modern low-water-volume WCs are notorious for poor flush, so I chose Twyford as one of the best makers.
     
  12. c128

    c128

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    Out of interest @JohnD , did you have a salt glazed pipe to sort out too?

    I've seen the various recommendations on the web concerning how to go about this (most on this very forum) but it still seems like it'll be a bit of a "heart in the mouth" moment when doing it, to avoid cracking the pipe.
    Mine is still as in the picture in the original post - the cement/mortar (if that's what it is) around the collar and the outlet doesn't seem too hard, so I'm hopeful I'll get the existing pan out relatively easily.
    Getting the collar off and down to floor level might be another thing though - it's a small room, so using an angle grinder all around is going to be a bit tricky...
     
  13. JohnD

    JohnD

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    no, it was a plastic one rising through a concrete floor.

    if you have a multicutter, you could use a diamond disk. It would take too long to cut right through, but if you score the glaze; better still cut a slight groove, it will encourage the crack line. Stuff a large cloth down the hole to prevent broken fragments falling down and causing a blockage. If you have a nearby manhole you might be able to pluck them out.
     
  14. c128

    c128

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    Just to continue a thread I started 5 years ago now :rolleyes:.

    Having finally got around to just about thinking about actually doing this, I found another (much cheaper, and more widely available than the Laufen) toilet that seems to pretty much fit in these situations without resorting to the cistern being away from the wall.

    Just sticking it here in case of its of use to anyone else searching for similar in the future:

    It's this: https://www.duravit.co.uk/products/all_series/durastyle_basic.com-en.html?product=5376894
    With this: https://www.duravit.co.uk/products/all_series/accessories.com-en.html?product=104886

    So, in my case:

    [​IMG] .

    I think it'll be about 1cm or so away from the wall, given the situation with my salt glazed pipe location in the original photo - with a bit of tiling on that wall, and maybe some spacers, I reckon it'll be about spot on. But I guess I'll see when I do it ;) .
     
    Last edited: 7 Nov 2021
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