Are these that bad?

[Roo]

I went to a job the other day to fit an isolator so work could be done on the installation.
I came across this sticker while I was there.
View media item 16347 View media item 16346
I believe the device the sticker is on is an ELCB but sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong.
And if it is an ELCB why is it an AT RISK situation?
Surely having one is better than having nothing?

 

[bhm1712]

is it possibly due to the fact that, from the photo it seems as though somebody could easily touch the live and neutral terminals? there appears to be no cover over the terminals on the meter or isolator

is it indoors?

it seems likely that the sticker is not just aimed at the ELCB, but at the whole installation.

 

[333rocky333]

is it possibly due to the fact that, from the photo it seems as though somebody could easily touch the live and neutral terminals? there appears to be no cover over the terminals on the meter or isolator

No main fuse either

Think you may find ROO was there fitting the isolater.

 

[EdwardCurrent]

Hello.

Roo has pulled the main fuse (bottom right) to fit the isolator ?????

The warning sticker could be regarding a 'voltage' rather than 'current' operated circuit breaker only.

Regards
Ed

 

[RF Lighting]

What was the earthing supply type?

 

[Roo]

What was the earthing supply type?

Leaning towards SNE but honestly can't remember.

In over my head as normal but can somebody explain to me why it could be dangerous?

Surely if it trips it's off?

Hello.

Roo has pulled the main fuse (bottom right) to fit the isolator ?????

Yup saves some lunatic that's not authorised doing it and leaving my cutout in bits or as I'm coming across them lately melted cos they can't tighten screws.

 

[RF Lighting]

If it is a voltage operated ELCB, and it is being relied upon to provide automatic disconnection in the event of an earth fault (such as with a TT supply) then the installation is very unsafe.

If the earth going through the ELCB is bypassed in any way, such as an 'earthed' water pipe connected to the immersion heater CPC, then the ELCB is immediatly rendered useless as in the event of an earth fault the voltage on the earth wire at both sides of the ELCB will be at the same potential, so it will not trip.

This is very dangerous.

If it is a TN supply and the ELCB is there for additional protection, then the installation is not to current regulations, but it does not automatically mean the installation will be unsafe.

 

[Lectrician]

I would say it is due to the fact it is a voltage operated type.

I have not come acros this type of ELCB before, but cannot see the earth or rod connections?

The fact they are having an iso fitted for future work kind of says they are having it sorted. In saying that, if you are having remedial work done, if it was me, I would be removing the iso Hate the things. Hey RF?!?

 

[bhm1712]

voltage operated ELCBs can only detect earth leakage in the circuit which passes through them, so if you grabbed live and the return path to earth was through your other hand via a water pipe which goes to ground, it would not detect this.

 

[bhm1712]

you guys beat me to it!

 

[Lectrician]

Yup, they have an earth connection from the install and rod connection to the rod. They look for VOLTAGE (hence the name), on this earth. They then disconnect. So, if you have an earth leakage that does not take the path via the rod, it will not trip.

 

[Roo]

Understand.

So in other words it's not a case of AT RISK as in there is something dangerous now (like an exposed live), but more a case of YOU MAY BE AT RISK (ie your supply may remain on if you do something stupid like mow ya mower cable with your metal mower and wet hands).

I see countless property's everyday with no form of RCD/Eathing protection yet no sticker on them.
I'm at my mums at the moment and she has no RCD.
I'm not saying its a good thing but surely a sticker saying AT RISK isn't needed.
It's like me sticking my DANGER LIVE MAINS tape on every cutout.

As always it was an elderly couples house who didn't know what an isolator was but were extremely happy when I came to fit one and make them safe?????????

 

[Roo]

if it was me, I would be removing the iso Hate the things. Hey RF?!?

Agree with you on some isolators as I'm forever tightening them back up but for the majority I think they're a good thing if fitted properly with a bit of muscle.

 

[RF Lighting]

Waste of space IMO

 

[nozspark]

Here's a picture of one with the cover removed.

This one is a 500mA Crabtree ELCB (current operated)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/n-e-electrical/3470752405/[/url]