So if a dedicated 32Amp ring was setup, which is protected by an RCBO and used 2.5mm Armoured, connected to an isolator, and used a 32amp industrial plug, and earthed the rack by means of using the SWA outer earth, would that cover the regulations pretty much?
Data/Server Rack Installation Requirements
- Thread starter RB2004
- Start date
So if a dedicated 32Amp ring was setup, which is protected by an RCBO and used 2.5mm Armoured, connected to an isolator, and used a 32amp industrial plug, and earthed the rack by means of using the SWA outer earth, would that cover the regulations pretty much?
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using a RING then putting the earths in seperate terminals at the board, an dusing dual earth sockets ( 13A variety ) would do it..
if useing a commando plug ( industrial type ) then I'm not sure they do a dual earth one.. ( might be an idea to send to the makers.. kerching!!!! £££ )
for the love of god DO NOT!!!! put the server on an RCD or RCBO protected circuit.. they'll love you when it trips..
if useing a commando plug ( industrial type ) then I'm not sure they do a dual earth one.. ( might be an idea to send to the makers.. kerching!!!! £££ )
for the love of god DO NOT!!!! put the server on an RCD or RCBO protected circuit.. they'll love you when it trips..
ok, Thanks for the confirmation, I know a ring is nessesary usually to reduce the load, so i would probably do that anyway, and if i didnt use SWA cable, it would all be mechanically protected in conduit, with a separate suitible earth wire to provide the earth for the rack cabinet.
Just asked because i wanted to get some information on what is involved, I may get an electrician in to do it anyway, but whenever i do electrical work as with anything i always do a proper job of it, and ensure its safe, so i like to get advice off of people.. after all once ive been told.. i dont need to ask again as i will know for future reference.. all need to learn somehow
lol which was what i thought the point of this forum was:S
i am generally a competant person.. i dont take shortcuts at all, and with a little guidance to put me on the right track ive never had any complaints of faults about my work, its done safely, and legally. I did a 22 Room Tv aerial installation not so long ago, everything was earth bonded at the distribution end.. and the electrician mistook the work for that of a professional job.
Even though its something i had never done before.
Because if a job is worth doing.. its worth doing properly.. and safely. Because i know, its because of people who dont do things safely and dont know what they are doing there are so many regulations in place to make things safe.. so might as well abide by them
Just like doing things myself usually because i know im a capable person, and as i said i never take shortcuts. it saves money! and its nice to take some pride in the work and be able to say.. i did that
So Thanks for the help.. any more advice is much appreciated.
Just asked because i wanted to get some information on what is involved, I may get an electrician in to do it anyway, but whenever i do electrical work as with anything i always do a proper job of it, and ensure its safe, so i like to get advice off of people.. after all once ive been told.. i dont need to ask again as i will know for future reference.. all need to learn somehow
lol which was what i thought the point of this forum was:Si am generally a competant person.. i dont take shortcuts at all, and with a little guidance to put me on the right track ive never had any complaints of faults about my work, its done safely, and legally. I did a 22 Room Tv aerial installation not so long ago, everything was earth bonded at the distribution end.. and the electrician mistook the work for that of a professional job.
Even though its something i had never done before.
Because if a job is worth doing.. its worth doing properly.. and safely. Because i know, its because of people who dont do things safely and dont know what they are doing there are so many regulations in place to make things safe.. so might as well abide by them
Just like doing things myself usually because i know im a capable person, and as i said i never take shortcuts. it saves money! and its nice to take some pride in the work and be able to say.. i did that
So Thanks for the help
.. any more advice is much appreciated.I know that lol, but under the regulations.. doesnt the circuit have to have an RCD? or RCBO protection?
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which regulation?
are you doing it in a domestic property or a commercial one?
if it's done in armoured then it has an earthed metallic sheath and needs no RCD protection, especially if using a 32A commando plug as it's unlikely to be feeding outdoor portable equipment..
A 4mm² radial will be ok providing you use the armour as the secondary earth.. or even better use 4 core and use 2 of the cores as an earth ring.. ( no need to make the power a ring.. just one dedicated radial per cabinet.. )
are you doing it in a domestic property or a commercial one?
if it's done in armoured then it has an earthed metallic sheath and needs no RCD protection, especially if using a 32A commando plug as it's unlikely to be feeding outdoor portable equipment..
A 4mm² radial will be ok providing you use the armour as the secondary earth.. or even better use 4 core and use 2 of the cores as an earth ring.. ( no need to make the power a ring.. just one dedicated radial per cabinet.. )
I thought all sockets had to be RCD protected under the current regulations,
Well i dont know if i am doing it or not.. just trying to get some advice and an idea of the requirements
So, 4mm armoured radial with a means of isolation.. MCB? or Industrial single phase 3 pole Isolator, with the 32A commando plug?
It is within a very small commercial building
Well i dont know if i am doing it or not.. just trying to get some advice and an idea of the requirements
So, 4mm armoured radial with a means of isolation.. MCB? or Industrial single phase 3 pole Isolator, with the 32A commando plug?
It is within a very small commercial building
Would it not be a good idea to employ someone who actually knows how to properly wire this installation?
Well i might do anyway, but if i did do it myself i just wanted confirmation on the requirements, and some limited guidance to point me in the right direction. One reason i keep going over the same things is because i am cautious about safety.. and i never carry out any work unless i know its going to be safely done, and all previous work ive carried out on anything is known to be safe.
Once i have an idea of whats required i am quite a competant person at doing things. As i said previously.. even when installing any cables, they are always done in a tidy way, conduit is used.. correct sized cable. earth bonded where necessary so i do have an idea of what im doing.
And before part P i had done quite alot of electrical work which involved new circuits.. and the electrician was quite impressed with how well it was done.
Just needed pointing in the right direction, as to cable sizes. I already know basic safety should be that everything is properly earthed, sleeved correctly, correct cable sizing, and adequate isolation, neatness of cables, cable protection, etc.
Thanks for the help though
Once i have an idea of whats required i am quite a competant person at doing things. As i said previously.. even when installing any cables, they are always done in a tidy way, conduit is used.. correct sized cable. earth bonded where necessary so i do have an idea of what im doing.
And before part P i had done quite alot of electrical work which involved new circuits.. and the electrician was quite impressed with how well it was done.
Just needed pointing in the right direction, as to cable sizes. I already know basic safety should be that everything is properly earthed, sleeved correctly, correct cable sizing, and adequate isolation, neatness of cables, cable protection, etc.
Thanks for the help though
What a bunch of horseshit. It's obvious, even to a blind corpse, that you've been planning all along to do the work yourself, AND that you didn't know how to, AND that you don't have enough basic understanding to realise all the things you don't know and therefore don't know that you should be asking about.RB2004 said:
Well then, understand this - what is required is that you engage someone competent to do the design, and the installation, and the testing.
How can you claim to know about adequate cable sizing when you made the glaring error of proposing a 50A MCB on 40A cable?
Most of what you've written is just sycophantic nonsense, posted in an attempt to glean more information from the forum so that you can do the work yourself.
I do know how to wire up circuits, i just wasnt sure about the loading and cable size which was why i seeked confirmation.
Whether or not i was planning on doing it myself or not is irrelevant. This is a DIY Forum, and im sure 75% of the people on here carry out work without being qualified, but if it is done safely and within the scope of the regulations and law.. i dont see how it is a problem.. i know im capable of doing the job.. and with confirmation on certain aspects of it which i have recieved.. from those with more experience i can go on and do it safely. So why you have to be so rude, and nasty about it i dont know... if you dont want to help people.. on a "diy forum" then dont" im not forcing u to advise me.
And although i made an error with that, its not something i would of actioned as i would of noticed it.. as i said previously i always check and check again, to ensure things are done correctly and safely.
and if i went ahead and created a circuit which can handle more load than required.. how is that dangerous?.. its excessive yea.. but still safe.
Whether or not i was planning on doing it myself or not is irrelevant. This is a DIY Forum, and im sure 75% of the people on here carry out work without being qualified, but if it is done safely and within the scope of the regulations and law.. i dont see how it is a problem.. i know im capable of doing the job.. and with confirmation on certain aspects of it which i have recieved.. from those with more experience i can go on and do it safely. So why you have to be so rude, and nasty about it i dont know... if you dont want to help people.. on a "diy forum" then dont" im not forcing u to advise me.
And although i made an error with that, its not something i would of actioned as i would of noticed it.. as i said previously i always check and check again, to ensure things are done correctly and safely.
and if i went ahead and created a circuit which can handle more load than required.. how is that dangerous?.. its excessive yea.. but still safe.
What test equipment do you have?
What is Ze and what is the PSCC? They are important, for reasons you will not understand!
Is main earth and bonds up to requirements?
As previously indicated, you need proffessional advise
What is Ze and what is the PSCC? They are important, for reasons you will not understand!
Is main earth and bonds up to requirements?
As previously indicated, you need proffessional advise
Hi,
Below is the server room where i used to work, it houses approx 50 servers, the core data switch and a few edge switches and the telephone system that serves 8 sites. Everything is redundantly powered via a UPS and your probably thinking theres a pretty big mains supply somewhere. Well you would be wrong, the room is served by five 20amp radial circuits wired in 2.5 T&E protected by C-Type 20amp mcb's.
Servers don't actually draw a lot of power, its the initial surge on power up you need to cater for especially when you have multiple UPS. We had a couple of power failures during my time there and each time when the power came back on the ten 3000va UPS's kicked in at the same time and didn't trip anything. Even though the servers you have are fitted with 1000watt power supplies the internals of the servers wont be drawing anywhere near that level of power, the PSU is always rated higher than the actual load.
As has already been said you need to get the earthing arrangements correct and more importantly do not RCD protect the circuit. It doesn't even need to be RCD protected, servers in racks are fixed equipment and a circuit feeding a fixed device does not require RCD protection.
I'm all for DIYers doing stuff themselves but from the knowledge you have shown and as its a commercial premises i urge you to have the work carried out by a professional. Also as its a commercial site are you insured to carry out the work, what if something went wrong and someone got electrocuted or the place burnt down, are you insured for that? If the work is done by a professional then it will be tested and certified as safe and if any problem arose they would be insured against any damages.
Well thats my advice and its your choice to take it or leave it. I'm not a qualified electrician but a fellow DIYer like yourself.
All the best
Dan
Below is the server room where i used to work, it houses approx 50 servers, the core data switch and a few edge switches and the telephone system that serves 8 sites. Everything is redundantly powered via a UPS and your probably thinking theres a pretty big mains supply somewhere. Well you would be wrong, the room is served by five 20amp radial circuits wired in 2.5 T&E protected by C-Type 20amp mcb's.
Servers don't actually draw a lot of power, its the initial surge on power up you need to cater for especially when you have multiple UPS. We had a couple of power failures during my time there and each time when the power came back on the ten 3000va UPS's kicked in at the same time and didn't trip anything. Even though the servers you have are fitted with 1000watt power supplies the internals of the servers wont be drawing anywhere near that level of power, the PSU is always rated higher than the actual load.
As has already been said you need to get the earthing arrangements correct and more importantly do not RCD protect the circuit. It doesn't even need to be RCD protected, servers in racks are fixed equipment and a circuit feeding a fixed device does not require RCD protection.
I'm all for DIYers doing stuff themselves but from the knowledge you have shown and as its a commercial premises i urge you to have the work carried out by a professional. Also as its a commercial site are you insured to carry out the work, what if something went wrong and someone got electrocuted or the place burnt down, are you insured for that? If the work is done by a professional then it will be tested and certified as safe and if any problem arose they would be insured against any damages.
Well thats my advice and its your choice to take it or leave it. I'm not a qualified electrician but a fellow DIYer like yourself.
All the best
Dan
Thinking that knowing how to "wire up" is significant in the design stage, which you are in, is like thinking that knowing that you must press the clutch before moving the gear lever is what makes you a competent driver.RB2004 said:
This statement illustrates my point.
You're designing the installation, but you (a) don't realise that you are, (b) don't know how to, and (c) don't know what questions to ask in order to learn how to. Here's an example:
Almost entirely wrong, and you don't know why it's wrong.You said:
So you'll make design errors, and the design will not be safe and adequate.
Armed with what you think is enough information and skill (in "wiring up"
), you will then go on to carry out the installation. It's obvious, and pretending that you might not is to consider us to be stupid. And we're not stupid. You're both wrong and naive. A high proportion of people who enquire on the forum take on the job themselves, in a domestic installation, without LABC notification, and therefore break the law. Whether or not they do it safely we will never know.
Not until you accept that you know almost nothing will you do it safely.
Show me where I've been anything other than honest and correct. Blunt perhaps, but none of it is personal or abusive. I would put it to you that you've been far ruder than I could possibly be in your attempt to mislead people who are giving free advice.
Even when the error was pointed out to you, you didn't understand - you pretended to.
Really? It should be the same? Why don't you tell us why you think it should be the same?You said:
FFS. You were all geared up to install a circuit that could supply an electric shower, and just for three computers, albeit large ones.
You really don't know? You were going to install a protective device that wouldn't have tripped on overcurrent until at least 40 Amps, supplying some appliances that would normally run at a combined total of about 12 Amps, and you can't see a problem with your approach?
Almost entirely wrong, and you don't know why it's wrong.You said:
It's wrong because the MCB is a higher rating than the cable, so the cable would fail before the MCB trips, thus causing a possible fire hazard. It would not have been something i implemented under any circumstances. And the whole reason for me asking was to find out.
So you'll make design errors, and the design will not be safe and adequate.
I agree, but i thourghly check every aspect of design, and confirm things before implementing it.
Show me where I've been anything other than honest and correct. Blunt perhaps, but none of it is personal or abusive. I would put it to you that you've been far ruder than I could possibly be in your attempt to mislead people who are giving free advice.
I have had no intention of misleading anybody, and apoligise if i have, I would consider getting somebody to do the job if i feel im not up to it, and dont have sufficient knowledge to do it adequately. But i wouldnt know until i know what kind of setup is required/involved.. if i feel from what ive been told on how to wire it up, i can do it safely then i would go ahead and do it myself.
Even when the error was pointed out to you, you didn't understand - you pretended to.
I didnt pretend, i know what the problem was, upon looking at it a 2nd time, as said above the main problem would be, the cable would become overloaded before the MCB trips, so it becomes a possible fire hazard.
Really? It should be the same? Why don't you tell us why you think it should be the same?You said:
It should be the same, or the MCB should be rated lower.. so that the MCB trips before the cable reaches its maximum load rating. Making the circuit safer.
FFS. You were all geared up to install a circuit that could supply an electric shower, and just for three computers, albeit large ones.
I wasnt geared up to go ahead and jump in, installing that system, I was just going by the warning sticker on the power supplies, if i knew they was only 4.5amp i would of speced out a lower rated circuit.. admittedly this is incompetant.. but its the reason i came on here to ask.
You really don't know? You were going to install a protective device that wouldn't have tripped on overcurrent until at least 40 Amps, supplying some appliances that would normally run at a combined total of about 12 Amps, and you can't see a problem with your approach?
Yes there is a problem with the choice of the MCB.. but the cable wouldnt of been dangerous.
It would be dangerous if it was overloaded and caught fire or the Zs wasn't low enough causing it to not disconnect quickly enough the event of a fault.
What calibrated test equipment do you own? How do you propose to comply with the Electricity at Work Regulations?
What calibrated test equipment do you own? How do you propose to comply with the Electricity at Work Regulations?
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