Asbestos or not? Help required....

[youmademerealise]

I'm just hacking out a firebrick in a 1950s council house and there's some odd material behind it...

Initially looked like very crumbly mortar but on closer inspection looks to have insulating properties... fused together spherical lumps, part mortar maybe, part a kind a scaly crystalline material, not really fibres though.

I should point out the fireplace is not necessarily 1950s though, it could have been put in much later

I'll try to post some photos in a minute

 

[youmademerealise]

Untitled

• youmademerealise
• 8 May 2011
• 1

 

[youmademerealise]

Untitled

• youmademerealise
• 8 May 2011
• 1

 

[Burnerman]

I think this stuff could be vermiculite, which, when mixed with cement is used to pack the back of fireplaces to prevent heat loss.
There's no guarantee that there isn't some asbestos in there somewhere though, but I would have thought that unlikely.
John

 

[youmademerealise]

Cheers John

Yes, I had found vermiculite in my research

 

[youmademerealise]

Some bits look and feel like a very soft pale wood, but flake away to the touch. I guess a microscope would be needed but they don't really look like fibres

Other bits look more crystalline, perhaps where it has been exposed to more heat

 

[Burnerman]

Vermiculite particles are rather like cork to the touch, in my opinion and the granule size is around 5 - 6mm. Certainly the granules have a shiny aspect at times.
There are asbestos analysing laboratories spread around the country if you are concerned,and in the mean time keep the product damp to avoid dust.
John

 

[youmademerealise]

Yep, that would describe it well enough

Was it in use in the 50's or is it likely to be more recent?

I suspect this fireplace opening was reduced in size at some point with vertical house bricks around the edge...

 

[youmademerealise]

If anyone can recommend an asbestos lab that would be great...they don't really seem to be springing up on google

 

[Burnerman]

Vermiculite has been in use for some considerable time - I couldn't put an absolute date on it but I've seen it used when I was a nipper (1960's) so I guess the 50's would be about right.
I can't see any reason for someone to use asbestos in your application - the wooly blue cemented asbestos was used in industry to lag pipes but who knows what the installer got his hands on.
More commonly we used 'asbestolux' (cemented sheets - and I've put miles of this through a circular saw) but after that a silica sheet was used, called 'supalux'.
Try googling Asbestos Analysis maybe for a lab?
John

 

[merlin50]

If anyone can recommend an asbestos lab that would be great...they don't really seem to be springing up on google

just put it in the bin and get on with the rest of your life

 

[RigidRaider]

You really don't want to mention the A word when you take it to the local tip; just put it in a bag and get shot of it fast.

 

[misterhelpful]

Taking it to the tip is a bit irresponsible, but when you consider how much has been taken there unknowingly in the past will your little bit really make a difference?
I personally wouldn't remove and dump it until I had confirmed whether asbestos is present but I doubt there is too much to worry about if you keep it well dampened.
You could ring your council and ask them about who can test it, if you want to go down that road.

 

[digdilem]

It's vermaculite mixed with cement. It's the standard way to insulate around chimney liners and behind firebacks.

I don't know of any asbestos containing product that looks like that and has no visible fibres. No reason anyone would have used it in that situation even if there was.

It's vermaculite. Inert and safe. Also used in compost and hanging baskets to add bulk without weight.

Seriously - don't mention Asbestos unless you want a world of complications and cost. Far, FAR too much hysteria about this - read the HSE practical guide for less hysterical advice than found in most places.

 

[misterhelpful]

Wouldn't be so sure of that digdilem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermiculite#Asbestos_contamination

Probably unlikely though!