Atag A325EC or Vailant eco831 combi - your thoughts pls
- Thread starter westeleven
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What is so special about this Atag? So it has a secondary heat exchanger on the DHW. Plenty of boilers with that. Is all the other blurb about built-in modules anything more than a secondary heat exchanger? Present of course on any condensing boiler.
People bandy about these figures of 98% efficiency. Any condensing boiler will come to within a percent or two of the same number when operated at the maximum condensing level, not that they operate at that level most of the time. Even when operating at essentially zero condensing, they are still nearly 90% efficient, so where is a fancy gadget going to get much more from?
Some of them don't do it on hot water because they don't have a secondary heat exchanger on it, so you lose around 10% of your energy when heating water. I don't know about you but my water only accounts for about 20% of my gas use anyway so thanks for knocking 2% off my bill
Of course my boiler has a secondary DHW heat exchange anyway, so what am I missing? Other than a less flimsy boiler?
People bandy about these figures of 98% efficiency. Any condensing boiler will come to within a percent or two of the same number when operated at the maximum condensing level, not that they operate at that level most of the time. Even when operating at essentially zero condensing, they are still nearly 90% efficient, so where is a fancy gadget going to get much more from?
Some of them don't do it on hot water because they don't have a secondary heat exchanger on it, so you lose around 10% of your energy when heating water. I don't know about you but my water only accounts for about 20% of my gas use anyway so thanks for knocking 2% off my bill
Of course my boiler has a secondary DHW heat exchange anyway, so what am I missing? Other than a less flimsy boiler?
It means it can fully condense in dhw mode, basically you get more of the energy you paid for.
the sedbuk scoring only applys to a boiler in CH mode which leads to combi boiler that may be A rated(>90%) but lower in hot water mode e.g. 70%
very few boilers pre-heat the incoming cold water with the poc flue gas. there is an add-on call the zenex gassaver with does same as what the atag has build in.
also intergas boilers fully condense in dhw mode but manges that with an unique all in one heat exchanger.
the current sedbuk scoring system does not reflect the true yearly efficiency of combi's but i do believe it is changing.
the sedbuk scoring only applys to a boiler in CH mode which leads to combi boiler that may be A rated(>90%) but lower in hot water mode e.g. 70%
very few boilers pre-heat the incoming cold water with the poc flue gas. there is an add-on call the zenex gassaver with does same as what the atag has build in.
also intergas boilers fully condense in dhw mode but manges that with an unique all in one heat exchanger.
the current sedbuk scoring system does not reflect the true yearly efficiency of combi's but i do believe it is changing.
Thanks, that's what I thought. I don't have a list of boilers that do this, but I know a few that do. I did see a list once, slightly out of date now, but it listed several boilers that I'm pretty sure don't condense on DHW (eg. some of the Vaillants) so not a very useful list really.
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There are so many things wrong with this that I hardly know where to start. The ATAG isn't the only boiler achieving that rating. BREEAM is not about measuring the difference between a 92% efficiency boiler and a 95% efficiency boiler, and NOx emissions are really the defining factor in their ratings of boilers. If you want to explain how great the boiler is, I'd love to hear it, but mostly I'm just hearing recycled marketing slogans and fancy buzzwords.
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I can't think of any other domestic boiler that woud help with a breeam schedule If you were to fit a vaillant it certainly
wouldnt help you.that coupled with items such as flood warning and isolation,washroom isolation(not just cisternmisers)full/short flush toilets and other items will.
As for a sales pitch,I've no need to tell you how good it is,price,performance and build quality are far superior to that of the boiler it's being compared to.Does the atag suffer from the internal hose failure,does it suffer from the dodgy wiki and Laing pumps,does if suffer with the flow sensor.I've seen all those faults and more on the vaillants but not as many issues with the atag.
Can I speak from experience rather than what I read on the net an from instructions,yep I've fitted both for years.You seem to come
along blabbing yet don't give any input,you tell me why the atag is worse than the 831.
wouldnt help you.that coupled with items such as flood warning and isolation,washroom isolation(not just cisternmisers)full/short flush toilets and other items will.
As for a sales pitch,I've no need to tell you how good it is,price,performance and build quality are far superior to that of the boiler it's being compared to.Does the atag suffer from the internal hose failure,does it suffer from the dodgy wiki and Laing pumps,does if suffer with the flow sensor.I've seen all those faults and more on the vaillants but not as many issues with the atag.
Can I speak from experience rather than what I read on the net an from instructions,yep I've fitted both for years.You seem to come
along blabbing yet don't give any input,you tell me why the atag is worse than the 831.
ianniann, why does Lee have to prove to you why they are better? you are not the OP, nor are you a potential customer. Considering your not an RGI , you seem to have a unhealthy intrest in boilers and heating systems.
What do you do for a living, out of intrest?
What do you do for a living, out of intrest?
like?
I measured the flue temp on hot water at 23C on a boiler "I" fitted in a real house, you do the maths.
not on hot water they're not. its not a fancy gadget its a heat exchanger
Its not flimsy its quality build you have no idea what your talking about. I think you have completely misunderstood how this boiler operates.
N
namsag
LEE.
Genuine question how long have you been fitting domestic Atags how many have you done and how many times have they been redesigned in that time.
Do you own the job for life so to speak and know if they are breaking down and with what faults. Also how many times have you had to get manufacturers out.
Respect your input
Genuine question how long have you been fitting domestic Atags how many have you done and how many times have they been redesigned in that time.
Do you own the job for life so to speak and know if they are breaking down and with what faults. Also how many times have you had to get manufacturers out.
Respect your input
I don't know about others, but I've been installing them since sept last year. None have failed, only had one issue which was just a setting issue not a fault. All the rest have been fine. I agreed with atag to carry out all warranty repairs, not just on mine but on any others within reasonable distance from me, also agreed to do any repirs over christmas period if i was available and they were close by but yet to get a single one. You only need to have a look inside and you can tell its been well engineered. The performance is a bonus, the hot water efficiency on the ec is superb, I measured it myself as im a big a sceptic as anyone. The modulating range is better than any other boiler on the market. Few high flow combis can be approprately speced on small heating systems. The only issue I'm aware of is the lwps which would ideally be positioned elsewhere to prevent ingress of dirt, although if the systems clean it shouldn't be an issue.
The company themselves are a breath of fresh air to deal with. Always answer the phone straight away and always helpful. If they don't know the answer they'll phone holland and get it.
First one I installed a small clip dropped out when I lifted it on the wall. I had no idea what it was or where it came from. I txted a pic of it to the Wayne the tech guy who was at an airport in holland. He txt me back straight away to tell me what it was. A hook to hold the hex during servicing!
I found another fun bit of info while I wait for someone to actually explain how the ATAG is so much better than anything else on the market.
ATAG boiler efficiencies should not be compared with most figures quoted for UK boilers, including SEDBUK. ATAG use a different method of calculation, leading to efficiencies approximately 10% higher (for natural gas), and hence in some cases greater than 100%. You can read about net and gross calorific values if you're technically minded.
What I do for a living, Gasman and others, is troll boards like this full of people who like to brag about how great this or that is, but don't actually have a clue. Or if they do have a clue, they're too up themselves to tell the rest of us. Does that answer your question?
ATAG quote an efficiency of 98% for the top boiler in their range, which appears to actually mean 88% in figures most people would recognise. Yet this is what the CH would achieve when not even condensing. And other boilers described as condensing in DHW mode (eg. some Worcesters, Atmos, etc.) are no better and mostly worse. How so? Cold in, hot out is ideal for condensing efficiency, so why isn't it there? Is it being lost by passing the heat through a plate heat exchanger? Are they simply not bothering to size everything to work efficiently that way?
ATAG boiler efficiencies should not be compared with most figures quoted for UK boilers, including SEDBUK. ATAG use a different method of calculation, leading to efficiencies approximately 10% higher (for natural gas), and hence in some cases greater than 100%. You can read about net and gross calorific values if you're technically minded.
What I do for a living, Gasman and others, is troll boards like this full of people who like to brag about how great this or that is, but don't actually have a clue. Or if they do have a clue, they're too up themselves to tell the rest of us. Does that answer your question?
ATAG quote an efficiency of 98% for the top boiler in their range, which appears to actually mean 88% in figures most people would recognise. Yet this is what the CH would achieve when not even condensing. And other boilers described as condensing in DHW mode (eg. some Worcesters, Atmos, etc.) are no better and mostly worse. How so? Cold in, hot out is ideal for condensing efficiency, so why isn't it there? Is it being lost by passing the heat through a plate heat exchanger? Are they simply not bothering to size everything to work efficiently that way?
N
namsag
Mickey thanks for your reply but an approx 8 month trail is not the answer i was looking for.
People would have said kestons where ok after such a short period as would the latest advocate of Atags gas4you would have said about ideals for a bit longer and has been saying about valiants till he has recently changed .
not being funny but find that lee does not lie or bull on here umlike so many others here and in CC
People would have said kestons where ok after such a short period as would the latest advocate of Atags gas4you would have said about ideals for a bit longer and has been saying about valiants till he has recently changed .
not being funny but find that lee does not lie or bull on here umlike so many others here and in CC
ianniann, thanks for the reply. To be honest your answer is exactly what I was thinking!
That you are a troll just around forums, but at least you're grown up enough to admit it.
So there we have it, as we all know what your backround is now we can just think of your posts as irrelevant
That you are a troll just around forums, but at least you're grown up enough to admit it.
So there we have it, as we all know what your backround is now we can just think of your posts as irrelevant
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