Atmos or Intergas

[Steelmasons]

Using 28mm, as 35mm pipe horrendously expensive.

I just looked at the BES site. 35mm is that badly priced. As belt and braces it may be worth just doing the distribution header in 35mm.

On what calculations are you basing this 35mm header size on?

Just in case you missed my last question to what velocity? , a subject you'll have difficulty in 'googling' , crack on.

 

[Brightonguy]

Yes, the distribution header, I will not use acronyms, is a neutral point. Think of it like a street with traffic moving up and down it not interfering with each other.

So tell me , to what velocity has the 28mm 'header' been speced for? (i'm going to guess that you will skip this question).

A 'correctly' designed 'header' will enable load/distribution pipework to be 'de -coupled' , your 28mm 'header' will do no such thing , maybe you are getting confused with regard to 'closely spaced tees'? , which again need to be correctly installed in order to create hydraulic separation.

You clearly haven't a clue with regard to correct system design so I suggest you leave it to those that do , ie: a heating engineer!

If you read back I have way more than clue. And you know that. This is engineering child's play. Just common sense.

For your info.....
Your boiler, particularly the heat exchanger in you boiler, will only function at it's peak efficiency when the water velocity passing through it is maintained within prescribed parameters. Boiler manufactures should tell you what the specs are for each make and model.

In some cases the flow rate through the system circuit will exceed the recommended maximum flow rate through the boiler, or it may be that the system flow rates are simply unknown. In other cases the reverse is true, where the boiler flow rate exceeds the maximum system flow rate (particularly true in some multi boiler systems). Fitting a Low Loss Header allows the creation of a primary circuit, within which water velocity can be maintained at the required constant, regardless of changes or requirements in the secondary circuits.

To sum this up in plain English: The amount of water going around the system (radiators, cylinder etc) might be to much or to little for the boiler.

In my case the boiler can cope with the full system flows through its heat exchanger, but the aim is the have a two zones and thermo rad valves on all rads, so the distribution header comes it to allows the thee main flow components, the boiler and two CH zone to operate independently of each other in hydraulic terms - one does not affect the other. Note: or it may be that the system flow rates are simply unknown. The header can even cope with the unknown but must be oversized (guestimate) in the case of the unknown.

It is a case of calculating the max velocity through rads as per rad makers. And the velocity through the boiler, which will be constant, and info gained by the makers. Then ensure the diameter of the header can cope with all.

Very simple when you use some common sense. None of this is rocket science as seem to think it is.

The 35mm header was a catch all as I wrote. If it is oversized for the application it will work. It is when distribution headers are undersized that problems arise, as one circuit can affect the other, as then the neutral aspect of the header disappears.

This example shows a system where the primary circuit currently has a higher flow than the secondary circuits. Depending on the velocity from the two CH zones in may case this flow could change as velocity from the CH zone collectively could ben higher than the velocity from the boiler.

 

[Brightonguy]

Just in case you missed my last question to what velocity? , a subject you'll have difficulty in 'googling' , crack on.

Oh Google can tell you want velocity means:

ve·loc·i·ty
/vəˈläsətē/
Noun
1.The speed of something in a given direction.
2.(in general use) Speed.

Synonyms
speed - rapidity - swiftness - pace - rate - quickness

 

[Steelmasons]

You are 'guessing' with regard to header sizing , I have asked you twice now with regard to velocity through headers/s , as you say it is 'childs play' so in that case give me an answer?

Not sure what the 'wink' emotican was for as in my view you haven't a clue.

What is the max flow rate through headers?

You are confusing flow rate with velocity , two entirely different things when referring to header design.

 

[Brightonguy]

I explained the approach. Unfortunately I don't think you have much of a clue at all as all you have done is come out with disparaging remarks and offered nothing positive or constructive because you have nothing to offer. Hands on plumbers only fit what the drawing says that engineers have calculated and drawn up.

Be weary of them. Look at the drawing Dan posted. Look at the one with the boiler and the HepvO trap on it. A nice job craft-wise. But to have all those pumps off a 22mm pipe? A secondary header was needed probably made up by the pipe fitter.

 

[RickMoore]

Ill ask the same question here as I did in your av thread. Why come on a forum like this asking for advice, only to reject it because you think you know better ? Then why insult the very people who have kindly given you the benefit of their years of experience ?

I can design a low loss header and make it work, others that have posted on this thread are even more knowlegable than I. Yet we are all wrong and you are right ?

I would guess that your low opinion of us (tradesmen in general) stems from only having those without a clue be prepared to work for you. Any of us with a clue would steer well clear as any work you wanted doing would not be worth the trouble.

Your arrogance is overwhelming.

 

[Steelmasons]

I explained the approach. Unfortunately I don't think you have much of a clue at all as all you have done is come out with disparaging remarks and offered nothing positive or constructive because you have nothing to offer.

.

You have explained nothing.

I have plenty to offer , you refuse to answer my questions so we will all take you for what you are , a google hero who knows zip.

To what is the max velocity through those 35mm headers? , or for a design point of view which would be the minimum?

 

[Brightonguy]

Rickmoore, firstly I have not insulted anyone on this thread whatsoever. I have suffer abuse from people who as far as I can see should not be giving advice on anything, but I ignored them. This steelmasons fella clearly came on the thread with an attitude. He offered nothing positive, attempting to make out he was clever.

I came here asking about the merits of the two boilers from those who handle them all day, and as the thread went along decided that I wanted two zones and rad valves on all rads, after thinking it through prompted by responses on the thread. It was ME who came out with the solution, not any of those giving "advice" whose advice boiled down to, "go to a plumber", because they didn't not know. I realised they were are plumbers and not engineers who have to think out solutions. These guys "do", they not "think it out". One was saying HepvO traps are no good on unvented cylinders. I posted all the Hep info and picture proving the "expert" was writing pure misinformation.

BTW, you were advising me to go to an "av installer" to run cable in new rip-out renovation. Most say that, obviously promoting their own trade. Any electrician can do the cable work. BTW, I have not contributed much to that thread. All I needed to know was what cable(s) to run from a central point to the TV, broadband points ect, and what termination sockets are used. They all say go to an av man. Sure! I get him to connect the stuff at the central location, not run cables.

I have concluded that Cat5e and satellite grade coax to each point. And guess what, I never got that from that thread, I got it from elsewhere. All I got was go to an av man. Like this bunch on this thread, "go to a plumber". I would not trust a domestic plumber to come out with decent solutions after what I read on this thread.

 

[Brightonguy]

I explained the approach. Unfortunately I don't think you have much of a clue at all as all you have done is come out with disparaging remarks and offered nothing positive or constructive because you have nothing to offer.

.

You have explained nothing.

I explained the approach. Read again. You have plenty to offer? You offered nothing here. NOTHING! The only thing you have offered is attitude. As to your silly question attempting to make out you are clever and not, I look it up from a table. Duh! It child play!

 

[RickMoore]

You were given good reason to go to an av installer and heating engineer. Unfortunately good reason is not what you seem to be looking for. I think that dan put it best with "you seem to think that what is good for the goose is also good for the gander"

 

[Brightonguy]

You were given good reason to go to an av installer and heating engineer. Unfortunately good reason is not what you seem to be looking for. I think that dan put it best with "you seem to think that what is good for the goose is also good for the gander"

They were not good reasons at all. All I needed to know was what cable(s) to use for all TV, computer, phone, etc, and what sockets, then the av man can do his stuff when the equipment is installed.

You, like these plumbers are trying drum up business for yourselves. The only decent man on the av thread was SimonH2. He was helpful.

 

[Steelmasons]

I look it up from a table. Duh! It child play!

What does this 'table' suggest?

 

[Brightonguy]

The PRV is a safety device and not covered by the boiler manufactures regs, so other than saying it should discharge safely thats good enough.

The regs will say that in the event it does discharge it should be visible.

This thread states that all boilers can have their pressure relief valves connected to a HepvO trap. Part g of the building regs approves it.

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=249310&start=15

 

[Brightonguy]

I look it up from a table. Duh! It's child play!

What does this 'table' suggest?

What it says.

 

[MJGas]

The PRV is a safety device and not covered by the boiler manufactures regs, so other than saying it should discharge safely thats good enough.

The regs will say that in the event it does discharge it should be visible.

This thread states that all boilers can have their pressure relief valves connected to a HepvO trap. Part g of the building regs approves it.

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=249310&start=15[/QUOTE]

Can you tell me where its states that all boilers can have there PRVs run in plastic in document G?