bailey plane depth adjustment problem

[elcaro]

HI chaps, I've got a problem with a Bailey plane. It has a knurled knob you turn to move the blade in and out so setting the depth of cut. This knob runs on a threaded bar about 1.5 inches long, like a bolt only with no head. That bar is screwed into a threaded recess in the back of the frog.

My problem is that when I turn the knob to adjust the depth of cut, the bar turns with it so it comes out of the hole it's screwed into. This only happens in one direction of course, the direction where you are unscrewing the bar. The other way is ok 'cos you are tightening the bar anyway. I've checked that the knurled nut is free to turn on the bar. Unfortunately the hole is only a few threads deep, and there is no obvious way of locking the bar or of getting hold of it to really tighten it. Also no way of holding it still while you turn the knurled knob.

I seriously doubt that putting Loctite on the threads that go into the frog would be enough to hold it. Gorilla glue?

As if that wasn't bad enough, the darn thing is reverse-thread too, confusing me further.

Any ideas please?

Regards from Terry.

Sorry pic upside down & I don't know how to turn it round. :

 

[elcaro]

Ah right way up!

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Loctite really is the way to go. That or a cyanoacrylate such as "super glue" or any of the mitre bonding adhesives (Mitre Mate, etc). Gorilla Glue will just get everywhere. I'd advise against Araldite or any other epoxy in case you ever need to replace the stud

 

[RandomGrinch]

Hi,

Could you take the knurled knob off, find some appropriately sized nuts (may be difficult!), and lock them together on the bar to screw it back well into the threaded hole?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Could you take the knurled knob off, find some appropriately sized nuts (may be difficult!), and lock them together on the bar to screw it back well into the threaded hole?

The problem with Stanley and Record planes is that they used some seriously odd size threads which aren't over the counter sizes. For the record the depth adjuster thread is 9/32in 24tpi American/Unified left-hand thread on Stanley & Record planes prior to about 2004 when Stanley at least went metric - the OP's plane is British made and has a beech handle, so post WWII and prior to the mid-1970s when Stanley switched to plastic handles, whilst the bent metal (sorry, stsmped and folded steel) 2-piece adjuster yoke as opposed to a one-piece cast adjuster yoke probably makes the plane sixties or later). Also, you don't want to reduce the amount of travel of the adjustment nut - with some cap irons you need every millimetre of adjustment to get the blade backed-off into the body

 

[elcaro]

Thanks for your replies guys.

Yeah, RandomGrinch, I thought of locking 2 nuts and giving it a good tightening, then remove them and put the adjuster back on, but I didn't know where to get nuts from or how to cut threads in undersized nuts. JobAndKnock says the threads are pretty odd. I also considered filing flats into the stud on 2 sides leaving threads on the rest of the circumference and using a tiny spanner.

JobAndKnock, is you real name Sherlock Holmes by any chance?! Your deductions are spot on. I bought this plane shortly after getting married, in late 1971 or possibly 1972!

Part of the problem was also probably a mis-op on my part, having overtightened the screw that goes into the kidney-shaped hole in the clamp which locks the blade and chip breaker into place and really having to force the over-centre lever down. So the blade was being held too tightly..

I got a bit of force onto the stud with pliers and a bit of cardboard to protect the threads, and I've not over-tightened the screw on the clamp. I'll give that a go then try some loctite if it still plays up.

Regards, Terry.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

JobAndKnock, is you real name Sherlock Holmes by any chance?! Your deductions are spot on. I bought this plane shortly after getting married, in late 1971 or possibly 1972!

Not really, but that's about the time I started in the trade, so I was buying tools at that time, and I sort of collect tools as a hobby... (just don't tell he missus)

I got a bit of force onto the stud with pliers and a bit of cardboard to protect the threads, and I've not over-tightened the screw on the clamp. I'll give that a go then try some loctite if it still plays up.

One other thing to try which I've seen on a number of old tools is to file, saw or grind (with a Dremel) a slot in the outer end of the threaded stud so you can get a straight screwdriver onto it. Just be careful about overtightening the stud as it is going into the cast iron frog and is isn't too difficult to strip threads

 

[elcaro]

Yeah I wondered about a slot for a screwdriver too. Just tried it and it seems to be better - i.e. useable - poss because I haven't over-tightened the clamp thing.

Needs sharpening, I'm onto that next.

- Terry.

 

[elcaro]

Nah! It won't hold its setting, and the stud unscrewed again anyway.
I'll try some loctite and report back.
Terry.

 

[Justin Passing]

The problem with real Stanley and Record planes is that they use some seriously odd size threads which aren't over the counter. For the record the depth adjuster thread is 9/32in 24tpi American/Unified left-hand thread on Stanley & Record planes prior to about 2004 when Stanley at least went metric - the OP's plane is British made and has a beech handle, so post WWII and prior to the mid-1970s when Stanley switched to plastic handles, whilst the bent metal 2-piece adjuster yoke as opposed to a one-piece cast adjuster yoke probably makes the plane sixties or later). Also, you don't want to reduce the amount of travel of the adjustment nut - with some cap irons you need every millimetre of adjustment to get the blade backed-off into the body

When did they change from brass thumb wheels? And they didn't have "Bailey" for a period.? I may have it all in a book somewhere, I also have "more tools than I need". That looks like a No.4 or 5. I have a 1,2,3,4,4 1/2, 4 1/2H 5, 5 1/2, 6, 7 and 8, though I think the 8's a Record. And a few others. 10, 10 1/2,... I can't remember them all. I used to go to auctions and TATHS meetings to find them. The whole tool-collecting scene changed when ebay came along.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

When did they change from brass thumb wheels?

1970s? Not sure. Certainly from the 1940s to the early 1970s they were solid brass. After that I really don't know. TBH I don't know much about the Stanley GB planes made after the 1970s, other than having fettled some fior colleagues and apprentices. This is partly because quality of British made Stanley really began to slide from the late 60s onwards, but also in any case American information starts to be less and less relevant to British-made tools after the 1960s, when Stanley UK went their own way to an extent and at least made an effort to keep quality up and even updated some of the classic designs (#60-/1A and #9-1/2A block planes, for example). The Yanks started painting their (USA made) planes different colours: blue, you know, like a certain well-known British brand which kept its' quality up for a decade or two longer than Stanley USA - that in turn helped them make market inroads into the USA at a time of a rapidly diminishing market for hand tools there. Stanley USA eventually stopped making a lot of their range of hand planes in the USA (what was left of it) and simply imported British-made Bailey, block and rebate planes for a while.

And they didn't have "Bailey" for a period.?

Before WWI (around 1907) they started to cast the "Bailey" name on the front of the bench planes from either #2 or #3 size upwards. For really detailed information you'd need to look at the Hyperkitten Stanley Plane Dating page or the like, or possibly the Walters book on Stanley planes.

I'd like to think that my interest in tools isn't really to collect for the sake of it, but that isn't completely true. I do collect, but a lot less than when I was really into it; I managed to track down and buy a #95 and #164 in original condition in the same auction, a #278 and a #289 - all in a 6 month period in the 1980s. I should say now, that I no longer actively collect Stanley tools and have sold off many of the true collector pieces, although I do still have a few interesting planes, such as a British-made "War Finish" #4, a USA-made "War Finish" #7 which came here with the USAAF and an early-1930s USA-made #5 jack plane (anyone who is unaware may not know that Stanley planes sold here all came from the USA until at least December 1937 when Stanley bought-out Sheffield tool maker J. A Chapman [best known for braces and Acorn-brand planes] and started to reorganise them for production in the UK - to date that 1942 to 1946 period #4 is the oldest British-made Stanley plane I have ever seen). I have sought-out other interesting stuff, though, such as my Record #0113 compass plane (complete with WWII Air Ministry markings) and a beautiful Mathieson handled wooden screw-stem flit plough plane. But my my most surprising purchase in recent years, out of a junk shop for the princely sum of £2.50, was a wooden plane made by a chap who ceased trading in about 1790 - or more than 3 times as old as I am, and no woodworm holes!

Looking at your collection I do wonder how anyone could have ever used a #1 or #2 - my hands are so big that even a #3 size is uncomfortable and I'd prefer to use a block plane instead. I did own a couple of Sargent #407s at one time (one of them with a horseshoe lateral) which I found completely unusable. Patrick Leach bought at least one of them off me.

 

[Justin Passing]

I've only ever seen unworn Stanley #1 and #2. I'd have to get the books out to look up the numbers for skew rabbets and chisel planes etc. I have a few of the shoulders, 901,2,3's and the better Records 712 713 714 was it? Not sure I know where they are even, now. A few Norrises, lots of unnamed ones. Have a soft spot for those - can't remember the name - which have a wooden bottom with the metalwork on top. I have a drawerful of Addis "7 gold medals" carvers. I don't collect moulders so only have a couple of hundred of those! A set of 4 Wooding's somewhere. I'll probably unload them all before long, like lots of the old collectors have done.

I used to buy only what I thought I'd use but then saw a wider version etc ....

 

[elcaro]

Ah lot of interesting stuff there guys. I remember my dad had a wooden plane - like sort of rectangular box but with curved sides. The blade went into a space machined into it and was held in place from the top with a wooden wedge. Dunno where that got to, I've got most of my dad's tools. I've also got most of my father-in-law's tools. And of course mine. I should sort through all this stuff and move duplicate / triplicate stuff on, by selling or donating. But at least since I have three hammers, I can usually find one of them!

Anyway, that Bailey plane. I sharpened the blade. Then I tried some loctite on the threaded stud as per JobAndKnock's suggestion. Then I used pliers with 2 bits of balsa wood to protect the threads and tightehed it. It seems sort of ok. Problem is, it's not easy to actually see if the stud is turning. I'll try a dot of enamel on the end of it so I can see the problem coming.

Thanks for your help.
Regards, Terry.

 

[elcaro]

That wooden plane of my Dad's :

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/wood-plane-identification.539245/

second one down in that thread looks like it.

Terry.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

It's a coffin smoother. Like one of these

The two big ones are a 2-3/8in one (left) an a 2in one (right) - little one is a 1-1/2in Marples which would be either a training (school) plane or used like a block plane is these days, and yes that is a worm hole on top of the cheek, but I doubt that the little buggers (if there are any left) have survived 2 minutes in the microwave. The difference between mine and this one:

is that mine are in working order and sharp. If you buy one you will quite probably need a bench with a vice and a sharp, well tuned metal smoother to fettle the woody as you may well end up having to true the sole and adjust the wedge (as well as deal with woodworm) before you can use the plane. Things to look out for and avoid include large cracks in the body, blown cheeks (where the wedge has been hammered in too enthusiastically and cracked the side of the plane), badly scored soles, very wide mouth (indicating excessive wear) and pitted irons/cap irons - TBH none of these is easy, nor worthwhile, to fix

Get a good one, though, and they are quite pleasant to use once you get the hang of how to set the iron using a nylon head hammer and a bit of patience.