Balancing act

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Can anyone explain, in layman's terms, the principles of balancing domestic radiators ?

My understanding is that the valves either end of individual radiators are for this purpose, but when following the procedure described on various internet tutorials I've come to the conclusion that my system has read a different manual :rolleyes:

We have a combi boiler (6 years old) running 11 radiators in a Park Home.
I assume that the valve that can be rotated controls the flow into the rad & the one at the other end (needing a key) controls the output back into the system serving the rest of the rads?
With the combi 'stat set at 65 degrees & the room-stat at 20 degrees the three rads in the lounge/dining area will reach around 44-46 degrees with all the valves fully open whereas the hall & bathroom rads will get almost too hot to touch even with the input valves barely open, conversely the bedroom rads only manage 35 degrees with fully open valves o_O

So I assume I'm doing something wrong ..
Any advice would be appreciated, many thanks in advance folks.
 
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Edit:

No. Your post says so.

**** plumbing likely.
Possibly, micro-bore plastic piping .. universally hated by heating engineers I'm led to believe & loved by rodents, ask me how I know :mad:

There are TRV's on the two bedroom rads. as a matter of fact, but they are both on full.
I could get one transferred to the efficient bathroom rad. I guess, which would allow for better temp. control in that room.
 
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Possibly, micro-bore plastic piping .. universally hated by heating engineers I'm led to believe & loved by rodents, ask me how I know :mad:

There are TRV's on the two bedroom rads. as a matter of fact, but they are both on full.
I could get one transferred to the efficient bathroom rad. I guess, which would allow for better temp. control in that room.

Sounds fubarred.

How about tracing the system and seeing exactly what you have?

Open all valves full including the trvs, make sure all is fully bled and then start again.

Trvs on full in the bedroom won't make a jot of difference. They can't call for heat, only stop it.

Set them at 2 ( if you like) and then leave alone whilst you do the rest.

As another try, you could close all valves just leave one open, going round the system 1 at a time to make sure any air blocks etc are removed.
 
Also it requires you to go round several times as when you open one up a little bit the others all flow a little bit less.
get one of those reasonably cheap dual thermocouple thermometers and measure the inlet and outlet temps on each rad. You may want a delta T (T1 -T2) to be +-10 or +-20 degrees, it depends upon sizing of boiler and rads. The main point is to get the temp difference to be approximately equal when all the rooms are at about the right temp, but the boiler is on at the time of measuring.
 
1. Most radiators have two valves, generally one on the bottom of each end. There are other connection options, but they are rare in domestic systems in the UK.
2. One of these valves is a lock shield valve. To adjust them you generally have to remove a non-rotating cap and use a spanner, key or Allen key to open or close the valve.
3. The other will be one of two types:
3.1 A Thermostatic Radiator Valve (TRV). This automatically closes down the valve as the room (not the radiator) reaches a temperature pre-set on the valve handle. The handle is relatively broad, and has numbers on it which equate to different temperatures. Where the numbers are 1 to 5, 1 is roughly 15 degrees, 2 is 16.5, 3 is 18, 4 is 21 and 5 about 23 (all roughly). If you set a TRV to 4, it will allow water to flow into it or out of it until the room reaches 21 degrees, when the valve will be fully shut. Most (but not all) modern TRVs can be fitted to either the flow or return side of the radiator, as they are not sensitive to the direction of the flow of water through them.
3.2 A wheel head valve. This is a manually adjustable valve, very similar to a lock-shield valve, which varies the flow rate of water into or out of the radiator. They normally have handle / knob smaller in size than a TRV and generally made of white beige or grey plastic. So if you want to cease heating a room, you fully close this valve, if you want the room very hot you open it fully. Or put it somewhere in between. These valve are quite prone to leaking at the spindle as frequent use wears the seal between the
4. It generally doesn't matter whether the lock-shield valve is on the flow (into) or the return (from) the radiator. Its purpose is to restrict the flow of water through the radiator with the wheel head / TRV fully open. In this way it determines the maximum amount of heat a particular radiator can take from the heating system.
5. The control valve (wheel head or TRV) can vary the heat taken from the system between zero and the maximum allowed by the lock-shield.
6. The purpose of balancing is to ensure that no particular radiator is taking too much heat from the system, leaving insufficient heat for other radiators.
7. Radiators heat space by losing heat from the hot water circulating in the central heating system. Because they lose heat, one end (the return end) must be cooler than the other (flow) end. It used to be that this difference was adjusted to be 11 degrees Centigrade. In more modern systems with condensing boilers, it is more efficient in terms of fuel usage for the temperature of the water returning to the boiler be at or below 55 degrees. To achieve this while still heating rooms at a reasonable rate, the flow temperature needs to be higher. In consequence the temperature difference between flow and return points on the radiator should be about 20 degrees.
8. To balance the radiators you need either two radiator clip on thermostats or an infra red thermostat. Then:
8.1 Open all the control valves.
8.2 Open all the lock-shield valves (but see 9. below).
8.3 Turn on the boiler, for heating.
8.4 Start with the radiator furthest from the boiler. For preference this is the one hydraulically furthest from the boiler, but try your best.
8.5 Adjust the lock-shield valve to get the required temperature differential. This takes time and you need to allow 10 minutes between each adjustment for the adjustment to be reflected in the temperature differential.
8.6 Repeat 8.5 for each radiator.
8.7 When you have finished, go round again, checking the differential, and making minor adjustments.
9. You can often get a good approximation by setting the radiators nearest the boiler (downstairs radiators?) about 1/2 turn open, and those furthest away 1 to 1 1/2 turns open, at least as a starting point.
10. Particularly in summer you can get problems as the system turns off as the rooms reach temperature. All you can do is keep windows open and be prepared to stop and let things cool down.
11. If you have a system with TRVs on most radiators, the TRVs sort of balance the system. If a room is taking more than its fair share of heat, it will warm up quickly, and the TRV will shut the water flow to its radiator. There is thus more hot water available to the system. The next room will heat, and its TRV shut, and so on. However, it is highly likely that the property as a whole will take longer to reach temperature, with some rooms heating up before others. This can be avoided with proper balancing via the lock shields.
12. The above is a long and boring process. If you do it, it is worth going round each radiator and:
12.1 Close the lock-shield completely, making a not of the number of 1/8 turns from the balance position to fully closed.
12.2 Open the lock-shield again by the same number of 1/8 turns.
12.3 You now know the balance point for each radiator, so if any are removed for decoration / maintenance they can be replaced and balance restored.
13. Note that it is not the temperature of the radiator which counts, it is the temperature of the room.
 
Many thanks for the replies from both of you guys .. I'll answer both at once if I may.

1) I would love to know the arrangement of the pipework run, but tracing it under the home is impractical without inflicting lasting damage to the insulation.
2) I have bled all the rads.
3) I do have an inferred temperature reader.
4) Neither of you mention the valves on what I assume is the return side of the radiator, so do they serve any purpose in regulating temperature & if not should they simply be left fully open?
 
1. Most radiators have two valves, generally one on the bottom of each end. There are other connection options, but they are rare in domestic systems in the UK.
2. One of these valves is a lock shield valve. To adjust them you generally have to remove a non-rotating cap and use a spanner, key or Allen key to open or close the valve.
3. The other will be one of two types:
3.1 A Thermostatic Radiator Valve (TRV). This automatically closes down the valve as the room (not the radiator) reaches a temperature pre-set on the valve handle. The handle is relatively broad, and has numbers on it which equate to different temperatures. Where the numbers are 1 to 5, 1 is roughly 15 degrees, 2 is 16.5, 3 is 18, 4 is 21 and 5 about 23 (all roughly). If you set a TRV to 4, it will allow water to flow into it or out of it until the room reaches 21 degrees, when the valve will be fully shut. Most (but not all) modern TRVs can be fitted to either the flow or return side of the radiator, as they are not sensitive to the direction of the flow of water through them.
3.2 A wheel head valve. This is a manually adjustable valve, very similar to a lock-shield valve, which varies the flow rate of water into or out of the radiator. They normally have handle / knob smaller in size than a TRV and generally made of white beige or grey plastic. So if you want to cease heating a room, you fully close this valve, if you want the room very hot you open it fully. Or put it somewhere in between. These valve are quite prone to leaking at the spindle as frequent use wears the seal between the
4. It generally doesn't matter whether the lock-shield valve is on the flow (into) or the return (from) the radiator. Its purpose is to restrict the flow of water through the radiator with the wheel head / TRV fully open. In this way it determines the maximum amount of heat a particular radiator can take from the heating system.
5. The control valve (wheel head or TRV) can vary the heat taken from the system between zero and the maximum allowed by the lock-shield.
6. The purpose of balancing is to ensure that no particular radiator is taking too much heat from the system, leaving insufficient heat for other radiators.
7. Radiators heat space by losing heat from the hot water circulating in the central heating system. Because they lose heat, one end (the return end) must be cooler than the other (flow) end. It used to be that this difference was adjusted to be 11 degrees Centigrade. In more modern systems with condensing boilers, it is more efficient in terms of fuel usage for the temperature of the water returning to the boiler be at or below 55 degrees. To achieve this while still heating rooms at a reasonable rate, the flow temperature needs to be higher. In consequence the temperature difference between flow and return points on the radiator should be about 20 degrees.
8. To balance the radiators you need either two radiator clip on thermostats or an infra red thermostat. Then:
8.1 Open all the control valves.
8.2 Open all the lock-shield valves (but see 9. below).
8.3 Turn on the boiler, for heating.
8.4 Start with the radiator furthest from the boiler. For preference this is the one hydraulically furthest from the boiler, but try your best.
8.5 Adjust the lock-shield valve to get the required temperature differential. This takes time and you need to allow 10 minutes between each adjustment for the adjustment to be reflected in the temperature differential.
8.6 Repeat 8.5 for each radiator.
8.7 When you have finished, go round again, checking the differential, and making minor adjustments.
9. You can often get a good approximation by setting the radiators nearest the boiler (downstairs radiators?) about 1/2 turn open, and those furthest away 1 to 1 1/2 turns open, at least as a starting point.
10. Particularly in summer you can get problems as the system turns off as the rooms reach temperature. All you can do is keep windows open and be prepared to stop and let things cool down.
11. If you have a system with TRVs on most radiators, the TRVs sort of balance the system. If a room is taking more than its fair share of heat, it will warm up quickly, and the TRV will shut the water flow to its radiator. There is thus more hot water available to the system. The next room will heat, and its TRV shut, and so on. However, it is highly likely that the property as a whole will take longer to reach temperature, with some rooms heating up before others. This can be avoided with proper balancing via the lock shields.
12. The above is a long and boring process. If you do it, it is worth going round each radiator and:
12.1 Close the lock-shield completely, making a not of the number of 1/8 turns from the balance position to fully closed.
12.2 Open the lock-shield again by the same number of 1/8 turns.
12.3 You now know the balance point for each radiator, so if any are removed for decoration / maintenance they can be replaced and balance restored.
13. Note that it is not the temperature of the radiator which counts, it is the temperature of the room.
Much appreciated advice, many thanks for such a descriptive post.

nb: no problem observing the 10 min. temp. adjustment periods, my back can recuperate at the same time !
 
Many thanks for the replies from both of you guys .. I'll answer both at once if I may.

1) I would love to know the arrangement of the pipework run, but tracing it under the home is impractical without inflicting lasting damage to the insulation.
2) I have bled all the rads.
3) I do have an inferred temperature reader.
4) Neither of you mention the valves on what I assume is the return side of the radiator, so do they serve any purpose in regulating temperature & if not should they simply be left fully open?
Pics?

See the posts above.
Usually, the two valves are identical, but a different plastic knob. One looks like a knob. One looks like a cap. Knob is knob. Cap is cap. You turn on off with knob. You set (lock) with the cap valve.
 
Also,
What a lot of these threads miss is the bleedin' obvious.

Don't assume a valve is open or closed because you can't turn it
If you want it on. Turn it off then on to be sure. And vice versa

Make sure both valves are fully open then close fully the lockshield then adjust.

Also, try closing EVERY rad apart from the cold ones. Does this make a difference now that the radiator in question has the full attention of the boiler?

If not, no amount of valve twiddling is going to solve it.
 
Also,
What a lot of these threads miss is the bleedin' obvious.

Don't assume a valve is open or closed because you can't turn it
If you want it on. Turn it off then on to be sure. And vice versa

Make sure both valves are fully open then close fully the lockshield then adjust.

Also, try closing EVERY rad apart from the cold ones. Does this make a difference now that the radiator in question has the full attention of the boiler?

If not, no amount of valve twiddling is going to solve it.
Tried the procedure you describe, with frustrating results !
I have 11 rads. all on one level but no plan of the pipework run, so choosing the furthest away from the boiler is just an educated guess.

I have two rads. on the opposite side of the home from the boiler that get far too hot & no amount of valve adjustment (Reg. or LS) short of totally off makes any noticeable difference .. this is with the combi set at 65 degrees, but the others in the home will only hit a max of 40+ regardless of how I adjust the LS valves.
Interestingly, the coldest rad. in the home (which could be the furthest away) on the same side as the aforementioned good 'uns has a TRV & despite being set to max the rad. only reaches 35 degrees & then only after the boiler has been running for a considerable time.

Is the answer perhaps to remove the TRV from that rad. & transfer it to one of the super hot rads. with another fitted to the second & let the rest (that are without TRV's) of the system do it's own thing?
 
Tried the procedure you describe, with frustrating results !
I have 11 rads. all on one level but no plan of the pipework run, so choosing the furthest away from the boiler is just an educated guess.

I have two rads. on the opposite side of the home from the boiler that get far too hot & no amount of valve adjustment (Reg. or LS) short of totally off makes any noticeable difference .. this is with the combi set at 65 degrees, but the others in the home will only hit a max of 40+ regardless of how I adjust the LS valves.
Interestingly, the coldest rad. in the home (which could be the furthest away) on the same side as the aforementioned good 'uns has a TRV & despite being set to max the rad. only reaches 35 degrees & then only after the boiler has been running for a considerable time.

Is the answer perhaps to remove the TRV from that rad. & transfer it to one of the super hot rads. with another fitted to the second & let the rest (that are without TRV's) of the system do it's own thing?
You have a plumbing problem i think. Your distribution network probably needs reviewing and revamping.

Personally, I'd have trvs on all rads, no ls throttling and let the system do it's job. As the rooms get to temp (and they should do if sized correctly) the capacity should make its way to the weakest point and that should be ok but if you shut everything down except the problem rad and you still get problems, I can't help but feel that you need to go back to basics and review the system.

I'm no plumber. Perhaps the pros on the forum might have a better plan.
 

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