Basin drain relocation garage conversion

[Al@n]

I'm considering carrying out a garage conversion to make it into a habitable room, majority of the works I'm planning on doing myself

On the ground floor in another room to the side of the garage there is a wash basin and toilet, the waste from the basin goes into a drain which is literally on the other side of the wall in the garage.

I really don't want to have a drain in the garage, so the only options I can think of are as follows:

- Relocate drain to the other side within the inside of the property, therefore it will be located where the basin currently is

- leave the drain where it is and seal/cover it

- Relocate drain to the outside of the property, which will involve a lot of digging!

Pics attached

I would appreciate your thoughts and if there are other solutions to address this

https://www.diynot.com/diy/media/img_20190820_112149.103188/

https://www.diynot.com/diy/media/img_20190820_112346.103187/

 

[acurachris]

leave the drain where it is and seal/cover it

That is going to be the simplest way. In some houses (mine included) the soil pipe is internal so the drain is inside the kitchen & bathroom, boxed in. I don't particularity like it but it doesn't cause an issue other than interior cosmetics.

Seems very wet around your drain, do you have a leak?

 

[Al@n]

That is going to be the simplest way. In some houses (mine included) the soil pipe is internal so the drain is inside the kitchen & bathroom, boxed in. I don't particularity like it but it doesn't cause an issue other than interior cosmetics.

Seems very wet around your drain, do you have a leak?

There is a tap in the garage also which is the water on the floor

What seal/cover would you recommend?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

2 options there as far as I can see.

1. Dig out the existing gulley, and replace with a sealed gulley, which will allow future access if required for cleaning etc. I would take the opportunity to replace the waste pipe at that stage too, as it looks like it may be becoming fragile. Use solvent weld pipework and it's guaranteed leak proof if dont properly.

2. If you're planning on replacing the WC and basin in the near future, bring that forward. The new pan can be fitted with a connection to accept the basin waste internally and the gulley can then be sealed off and abandoned.

 

[Al@n]

1. Dig out the existing gulley, and replace with a sealed gulley, which will allow future access if required for cleaning etc. I would take the opportunity to replace the waste pipe at that stage too, as it looks like it may be becoming fragile. Use solvent weld pipework and it's guaranteed leak proof if dont properly.

2. If you're planning on replacing the WC and basin in the near future, bring that forward. The new pan can be fitted with a connection to accept the basin waste internally and the gulley can then be sealed off and abandoned.

Option 2 i think would be best, I would prefer to not have the drain in the garage, I will be fitting a new basin and toilet

I wasn't too sure if the drain waste can be connected to the pan waste, so that would be ideal.

Do you know how typically how deep i would need to dig?

Could you also point me to what fittings I would need to carry this out?

Cheers

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Pan connector are available with a 32mm boss connection to accept a basin waste. To block off existing gulley, you could just fill it with concrete and bury the lot, depending on the plan with the existing floor, and maintaining damp roofing. However given it looks like a 'Back inlet gulley', there is a big chunk of it under the surface, so I'd personally dig down, remove the gulley, and fit a cap on the outlet pipework.

Adaptor and cap as thus. https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-underground-flexible-adaptor-110mm/19914 https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-underground-socket-plug/43416 then cover with concrete to ensure no rat ingress through the redundant section. If possible, seal where it joins the main sewer too, if the connection is visible in a chamber.

 

[Al@n]

Pan connector are available with a 32mm boss connection to accept a basin waste. To block off existing gulley, you could just fill it with concrete and bury the lot, depending on the plan with the existing floor, and maintaining damp roofing. However given it looks like a 'Back inlet gulley', there is a big chunk of it under the surface, so I'd personally dig down, remove the gulley, and fit a cap on the outlet pipework.

Adaptor and cap as thus. https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-underground-flexible-adaptor-110mm/19914 https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-underground-socket-plug/43416 then cover with concrete to ensure no rat ingress through the redundant section. If possible, seal where it joins the main sewer too, if the connection is visible in a chamber.

Perfect, the existing gulley will I need to dig it down or anything or can i just fill it with concrete? i will double check but i believe that is the only connection

Are there any risks if i do not dig it down and just fill it with concrete?

 

[Al@n]

The wc pan i believe is clay, how would you recommend I remove this without damaging the clay pipe below?

I also would prefer to move the pan closer to the wall, rather than how it is currently, will this be easy to do or involve a lot of digging?

Pic attached
https://www.diynot.com/diy/media/img_20190820_162207.103194/

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Only risk with not removing the gulley is damp, but assuming you will be providing some kind of damp proofing underfloor during conversion works, I dont see there would be an issue just filling the gulley in.

Pan looks like it may be connected to the drain using a plastic 'collar', it may be possible to loosed the pan from the floor by gently rocking it from side to side. If it will work loose using this method, it should just lift clear, leaving the collar in situ in the clay socket. If it doesn't, worst case scenario is you'll have to break the pan into pieces to remove it, ensuring nothing fall down the drain. If this method is required, take your time, and wear some stout gloves. Broken porcelain is as sharp as glass, and can seriously injure if not careful. Coupled with lingering bacteria in the soil pipe, it's not a good recipe.

Looking at the position of the drain, it might be possible to get a bottom outlet pan that will allow positioning closer to the wall, but without dimensions, it's difficult to say. Any Horizontal outlet pan will likely need the drain moving back to achieve a closer position to the wall. Doable, but a lot of extra work.

 

[Al@n]

Only risk with not removing the gulley is damp, but assuming you will be providing some kind of damp proofing underfloor during conversion works, I dont see there would be an issue just filling the gulley in.

Pan looks like it may be connected to the drain using a plastic 'collar', it may be possible to loosed the pan from the floor by gently rocking it from side to side. If it will work loose using this method, it should just lift clear, leaving the collar in situ in the clay socket. If it doesn't, worst case scenario is you'll have to break the pan into pieces to remove it, ensuring nothing fall down the drain. If this method is required, take your time, and wear some stout gloves. Broken porcelain is as sharp as glass, and can seriously injure if not careful. Coupled with lingering bacteria in the soil pipe, it's not a good recipe.

Looking at the position of the drain, it might be possible to get a bottom outlet pan that will allow positioning closer to the wall, but without dimensions, it's difficult to say. Any Horizontal outlet pan will likely need the drain moving back to achieve a closer position to the wall. Doable, but a lot of extra work.

I'm planning on building a suspended floor to raise the height as the garage is lower, so I'm guessing damp wont be an issue...?

Thanks for the info, I'll attempt to remove the toilet to access the pan and fit one with a 32mm boss and fill the gulley with cement, is it worth also filling it on the manhole side too where it exits? Or can can i purchase something where i can just plug it?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

If you can get to the inlet where the redundant connection enter the manhole, then seal it with some concrete if you can, prevents a dead end where rats like to nest. Make sure the chamber is a safe atmosphere though before entering or leaning into it if deep, sewer gases are heavier than air, and can kill in seconds.

I wont comment of the floor as I'm not 100% sure of the correct practice with suspended floors, would think provided ventilation is correct, damp shouldn't be an issue though.

 

[Al@n]

If you can get to the inlet where the redundant connection enter the manhole, then seal it with some concrete if you can, prevents a dead end where rats like to nest. Make sure the chamber is a safe atmosphere though before entering or leaning into it if deep, sewer gases are heavier than air, and can kill in seconds.

I wont comment of the floor as I'm not 100% sure of the correct practice with suspended floors, would think provided ventilation is correct, damp shouldn't be an issue though.

I ran the basin tap and flushed the toilet at the same time whilst looking at the manhole, the water came out from the same outlet, so I'm guessing they use the same connection below the ground?

Whereabouts will the connection be between the toilet and basin below the ground? In order for me to seal/cap the basin side

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Could be anywhere, but my guess would be, closer to the house. If the line is still live, then rats are unlikely to use it, provided the gulley is adequately sealed, then I wouldn't worry any further.

 

[Al@n]

Could be anywhere, but my guess would be, closer to the house. If the line is still live, then rats are unlikely to use it, provided the gulley is adequately sealed, then I wouldn't worry any further.

Ok thanks, so do i dig on the garage side? or the inside of the toilet/basin side or both? To get to the connection so i can seal the basin side off and leave the toilet side live

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I'd just seal it at the top, no point digging, you could have half the garage floor up before you finish trying to find the junction. My concern was, if sealing the gulley off provided a dry lateral, rats might move in, If the WC is still connected, the lateral will still be in use, they're not so likely to attempt to set up camp in a short connection off that, which will probably be near vertical anyway.