Bathroom Downlighters and plastic panelled ceiling

[maj3091]

Hi all,

I did a search on this and didn't find anything related, so hopefully it's not been posted before.

Last year I had my bathrooms renovated and had plastic panelling fit to the ceiling (was artexed and OH wanted flush fitting downlights).

Anyway, the downlights fitted are mains GU10 type sealed ones specially for the bathroom in chrome. They have been fit correctly with the rubber seal behind them, but they have started to "melt" the plastic panelling behind them.

It's nothing major, but you can see a black tarnishing on the panel and on closer inspection can see it cracking/splitting, and it's an eyesore and a worry for me, that if the lights get left on by accident during the day, that it's potentially unsafe.

The electrician specified, supplied and fitted these lights, knowing the ceiling type they were going through, so I'm looking for some advice.

Are these lights suitable for this type of surface or is it, as the electrician said, non-suitable panels and what's my best option for getting it sorted?

The electrician is accepting no-blame, so is suggesting completely new fittings with a larger hole and using "compact fluorescent" type bulbs (as they run cold) or to get the ceiling completely re-done, both of which are costly exercises.

Is there such a thing like a "big washer", that could be fit behind the current fittings to hide the damage to the ceiling and then use the different type bulbs?

Does anybody have any suggestions?

Apologies for the long winded post.

 

[ninjacat]

The electrician specified, supplied and fitted these lights, knowing the ceiling type they were going through,

as the electrician said, non-suitable panels

The electrician is accepting no-blame, so is suggesting completely new fittings with a larger hole and using "compact fluorescent" type bulbs (as they run cold) or to get the ceiling completely re-done, both of which are costly exercises.

Is this the same electrician in all the quotes? If so he specced the wrong lights for the panels and should be sorting out the problem himself at his cost as he has ruined your new ceiling.[/b]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Last year I had my bathrooms renovated and had plastic panelling fit to the ceiling

Why not plasterboard?

(was artexed

Or why not remove that? Or skim over it?

and OH wanted flush fitting downlights).

a worry for me, that if the lights get left on by accident during the day, that it's potentially unsafe.

Sounds like a very valid concern.

The electrician specified, supplied and fitted these lights, knowing the ceiling type they were going through, so I'm looking for some advice.

Go back to him and get him to understand that you employed him for his professional expertise, and that he was negligent.

Are these lights suitable for this type of surface

Apparently not.

or is it, as the electrician said, non-suitable panels

It's an unsuitable combination of panels and lights, which the electrician created by supplying lights which were not appropriate for the panels he knew you were using.

and what's my best option for getting it sorted?

Force the electrician to sort it, at no extra cost except any difference in price between the new lights and the ones he originally installed.

The electrician is accepting no-blame,

He can refuse to accept it all he likes, but that doesn't change the fact that the blame is entirely his, and the responsibility for resolving the problem is entirely his.

so is suggesting completely new fittings with a larger hole and using "compact fluorescent" type bulbs (as they run cold) or to get the ceiling completely re-done, both of which are costly exercises.

Costly for him, which is why he is refusing to accept any blame, but he was the one who screwed up, so he will have to shoulder the cost.

Is there such a thing like a "big washer", that could be fit behind the current fittings to hide the damage to the ceiling and then use the different type bulbs?

Why should you be forced to have a bodge like that because of his incompetence?

What happens if someone later starts to use incandescent bulbs again?

Does anybody have any suggestions?

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

 

[maj3091]

Thanks for the replies gents, I appreciate your input.

I may well get somebody else in to look at the issue and get another "expert" opinion on it. It's a bit of a "dilemma" as the electrician is the husband of the OH's friend, as well as the plumber (but that's a whole different story), so I've been treading lightly in that respect, but I feel I'm having the proverbial taken out of me a little bit.

Last year I had my bathrooms renovated and had plastic panelling fit to the ceiling

Why not plasterboard?

(was artexed

Or why not remove that? Or skim over it?

In hindsight, that is exactly what I should have done.....especially as this same issue affects both my main bathroom and my ensuite.



Ninjacat, in regards to your question, same electrician in all quotes.

 

[ninjacat]

It's a bit of a "dilemma" as the electrician is the husband of the OH's friend, as well as the plumber

Did he do this as a special for you? Or was it properly quoted for etc. Tough one but the fact is that he has made a mistake in his choice of lights by his own admission (wrong panels for lights but he knew what surface he was fixing them to) and he should be sorting it out at his cost.

Also, a side point, but bathrooms are special locations - BAS (and others) will probably be able to correct any mistakes I make but AFAIK you needed to notify Building Controls before work started on the electrics and get them to check it or use an electrician from an aproved scheme who can notify the works via his scheme provider. I am failrly certain that fitting downlighters is not a like for like job. He should then issue with a certificate.

 

[maj3091]

It's a bit of a "dilemma" as the electrician is the husband of the OH's friend, as well as the plumber

Did he do this as a special for you? Or was it properly quoted for etc. Tough one but the fact is that he has made a mistake in his choice of lights by his own admission (wrong panels for lights but he knew what surface he was fixing them to) and he should be sorting it out at his cost.

Also, a side point, but bathrooms are special locations - BAS (and others) will probably be able to correct any mistakes I make but AFAIK you needed to notify Building Controls before work started on the electrics and get them to check it or use an electrician from an aproved scheme who can notify the works via his scheme provider. I am failrly certain that fitting downlighters is not a like for like job. He should then issue with a certificate.

No, it wasn't a special/foreigner and at nearly £700 to fit the lights (and two fans), I didn't think it was cheap either.

I'm not sure about the building control notification (I didn't see anything along those lines), but I did get a certificate of works at the end of the job, albeit this guy was the inspector on his own work (not sure how that works).

 

[ninjacat]

Others will be able to say if a certificate of works is fine, I was just a bit worried that you said he was a friend of the other halfs and the plumber - immediately thought of a handyman quickly popping in some lights for you at the same time as plumbing up a bathroom and thought you needed to be aware that there are regulations to comply with when doing electrics esp in special locations. I'll shut up now

He didn't fit the ceiling as well did he?

 

[maj3091]

Others will be able to say if a certificate of works is fine, I was just a bit worried that you said he was a friend of the other halfs and the plumber - immediately thought of a handyman quickly popping in some lights for you at the same time as plumbing up a bathroom and thought you needed to be aware that there are regulations to comply with when doing electrics esp in special locations. I'll shut up now

He didn't fit the ceiling as well did he?

Separate plumber, electrician and tiler.

The tiler fit the ceiling and to be fair I had no issues with the tiler at all, very professional. The electrician was well aware of the ceiling type being fit and even pre-drilled the plasterboard before the cladding was fit.

The plumber was a nightmare, I have a damaged living room ceiling due to leaking during installation and other issues which I'm still waiting to be resolved, even though they were reported to him 4 months since. He also fit a new combi boiler at the same time and managed to pipe two hot water pipes to my shower and it had a blocked waste pipe....not a pleasant experience I can tell you - nowhere to run in that situation when you're in the cubicle and it's rising around your feet!

Anyway, plumber is a different forum topic, which I may raise later for some advice on some of the issues I have.

 

[Chri5]

An alternative method of resolution would be to replace the existing lamp holders with

http://www.lightingstyles.co.uk/R63_&_R80_mains_converter_pack_white.htm

and then use megaman ES lights (9 or 11w) which run much cooler.

 

[maj3091]

An alternative method of resolution would be to replace the existing lamp holders with

http://www.lightingstyles.co.uk/R63_&_R80_mains_converter_pack_white.htm

and then use megaman ES lights (9 or 11w) which run much cooler.

That's an alternative, but either way, it's new fittings which then the ceiling needs to be drilled out to accommodate them.

Thanks for your input Chri5

 

[Chri5]

No they should fit in the existing holes, the fittings simply have a over large 'cap' that would be deemed a feature.

The thought was that your tarnishing and panel damage would be in the immediate area around the old fitting and would be obscured by the new fittings with the extra width of the cap.

To clarify the cap is the saucer sized plastic around the fitting suggested.

 

[maj3091]

No they should fit in the existing holes, the fittings simply have a over large 'cap' that would be deemed a feature.

The thought was that your tarnishing and panel damage would be in the immediate area around the old fitting and would be obscured by the new fittings with the extra width of the cap.

To clarify the cap is the saucer sized plastic around the fitting suggested.

Thanks Chri5, I must have misread the item description, I'd read it has converting from larger lights (big hole) down to smaller lights.


Just as a follow up, I spoke to the manufacturer of the panels last night and they said they've not had this problem before, but obviously it's not possible for them to test with every available fitting on the market, which is a fair comment.

Their stance is that the supplier of the fittings should ensure suitability.

 

[1john]

the lights should have an 'F' in a triangle marked on them or the technical sheet that came with them. If it has then i would suggest that the electrician has done all he can and the light supplier / manufacturer should be contacted, if they havent the 'F' within a triangle then the electrician needs to sort this out FOC.

The 'F' in a triangle is to indicate that the fittings are suitable to be mounted in a flamable surface.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thanks Chri5, I must have misread the item description, I'd read it has converting from larger lights (big hole) down to smaller lights.

No, you read it right - that's what it does.

Their stance is that the supplier of the fittings should ensure suitability.

Their stance is correct.

 

[maj3091]

the lights should have an 'F' in a triangle marked on them or the technical sheet that came with them. If it has then i would suggest that the electrician has done all he can and the light supplier / manufacturer should be contacted, if they havent the 'F' within a triangle then the electrician needs to sort this out FOC.

The 'F' in a triangle is to indicate that the fittings are suitable to be mounted in a flamable surface.

Interesting comment John, I'll have a look at that this evening, or I'll see if the electrician can tell me who the manufacturer is and I'll check it out today.

I suppose the only question is, is whether these plastic cladding panels are classed as flammable?

Looks like this could get long-winded if they are the "correct" type fittings, then it's a battle between the manufacturers of the panels and the light fittings...so where does that leave me in regards to getting it sorted???