Best sound insulation for wooden floors in flat for Regs.?

[PeterRayner]

I have spent some time searching on-line for what to use to sound insulate some new wooden floors ( not yet bought) which I would prefer to have in my "change of use" for some rooms in a flat which must comply with Building Regs on sound proofing - as will be inspected by the District Surveyor at end of the job.
There seem to be various products to use - any recomendations regarding what is best for sound proofing, ease of use, look ( ie not adding too much height to floor level), cost??
The original floor is old floor board which must stay down ( they have already been up for new central heating and electrics so don't want to take them up again). I shan't be doing the job myself but need to know how maximum soundproofing can be acheived and what the whole process is. Thanks.

 

[LaminatePro]

Duralay Timbermate excel gold has a sone value 53 so may be what you are after

 

[JohnD]

original floor is old floor board which must stay down

"Must" is not correct.

you're just hoping for an easy life.

Take them up and use soundproofing in the void

 

[WoodYouLike]

Duralay Timbermate excel gold has a sone value 53 so may be what you are after

The Excel comes with DPM, not good on existing floorboards. Timbermate Duratex is without DPM and therefore better suited in this situation.

The Timbermate Silentfloor Gold is a completely different product, again with DPM so not suited

Other option would be the H.D. Contract (28dB)

 

[LaminatePro]

The dpm is not going to make a difference ok in this situation a dpm is not required but the duralay products with the dpm have better sone levels.

 

[WoodYouLike]

A DPM on existing floorboard is going to make a difference, a bad one at that. Normal moisture in the void can condensate there, and can even cause joists to rot.
So, again: on existing floorboards or sheetmaterials like chipboard or plywood - NEVER use an insulation that contains a DPM.

 

[LaminatePro]

Sorry mate I do not agree the void is there to allow air to circulate under the void removing any condensation. with your logic you would not be able to use vinyl on a wooden floor either as this also creates a vapour barrier.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Make that Mrs Mate

It is standard practise in the professional wooden flooring industry to NOT use DPM on any existing flooring or sheetmaterial. You don't have to agree as long as you explain to your customers what the risks are.

 

[LaminatePro]

Hi Mrs Mate As pointed out the void is there to recirculate air and while I agree it would not be a good idea to completely seal this area it is highly unlikely to effect the area one way or another by covering the top. There is more to the flooring industry than just wood flooring like I said above vinyl has been used for years in this situation.

Gary.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Granted Gary. But when you once seen the results of using the wrong insulation, you tell every client better save than sorry.

 

[LaminatePro]

Think about it Woodyoulike you are also saying that you can't level and screed a wooden floor which is normal practice as this also seals the floor. You would also not be able to fit tiles or any Karndean type floor to a wooden subfloor.

If you have seen damaged joists due to damp you can be almost certain there is a cause other than a dpm above it. Usually blocked air vents in the building itself causing a lack of circulating air under the floor.

In the above case the dpm will exaggerate the problem but the problem is not the dpm it is the blocked vents.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Too true.
But.... it happens rather often that there is no moist problem in the void any one knows of. Then the garden gets done, patio laid etc, sloping design garden and the problems start afterwards.
Again, better save than sorry. If with wooden flooring you have the obvious choice of buying one type of underlayment without the risk of problems later, which one would you recommend?

 

[mattysupra]

the difference with wood and vinyl is very different. When using a dpm underlay on a wooden subfloor the wood itself and the underlay insulates the floorboards below so there is a difference in temperature. The plastic dpm can collect moister droplets/sweat etc, bit like condinsation on a window. (dew point etc).

With karndean/amtico it is direct stick and becomes one subfloor that temperature is almost equal from top to bottom. Any moister will not collect on the underside of the wood subfloor like it will on plastic. It will be absorded and realised as normal. (providing air bricks etc are working)

Its the same for vinyl also. It will sit very flat and follow the contour of the subfloor rather than leaving pockets underneath to collect moister. The vinyl will also keep temperature in check between itself and the subfloor. Hence it wont build up moister underneath. Plus it should be installed on plywood to give a smooth subfloor and protect the floorboards from possible moister build up.

Most floorboards etc are fine with a dpm providing there is correct airflow underneath, however solid woods/parket etc will fail very quickly. Its not good practise to use a dpm underlay when its proven that it MAY give problems.

Why take the risk when there are products out there that are designed to allow the subfloor breath.

There is a bit more to it than that but that should give you a understanding of why a dpm underlay shouldn't be used on a wooden subfloor.

 

[LaminatePro]

The dew point becomes an issue when there is a significant difference in temperature between the lower cavity and the upper room. It is caused by hot air hitting a cold surface as the hot air cools against the cold surface to the dew point you get condensation.

If you refer to the OP you will notice the question was about noise reduction in a flat and since the noise issue is the main concern it is probably safe to assume this is an upstairs room effectively making dew point concerns a mute issue.

Moisture should not collect on the underside of a dpm even where there are dew point issues it is the air on the top of the dpm that will condensate as that is the air cooled to it's dew point.

The underlay suggested has a layer of insulation as well as a foil dpm layer this is to insulate the foil layer from the colder area underneath and prevent this problem as you can get this problem with concrete bases every bit as much as with wooden subfloors.

I will concede that not using a dpm eliminates this problem altogether and if not for the OP's specific requirements would not have usually been recommended.

 

[HelpDIY]

Too true.
But.... it happens rather often that there is no moist problem in the void any one knows of. Then the garden gets done, patio laid etc, sloping design garden and the problems start afterwards.
Again, better save than sorry. If with wooden flooring you have the obvious choice of buying one type of underlayment without the risk of problems later, which one would you recommend?

Hi guys, I am no expert but rather a user of underlay. Having search the net, I received mixed opionion as to which product is suitable for floorboard. Having spoken to the the manufacturer, they said
At the groundfloor level, Excel could be used if there is adequate ventilation under, Duratex for upstair floorboard. The simplest solution is to use Duratex on both floors and ventilation satisfied both floors. I would incline to go with WoodYouLike advice as I feel it is better safe than sorry. - thanks WoodYoulike.

the floorboards via air bricks