Best way to heat a bath with electricity

I've often wondered why they don't put lumps of copper in stainless steel cylinders to at least partially address that issue. I haven't checked, but maybe it's because the two metals have sufficiently different electrochemical potentials for electrochemical corrosion to be an issue? Mind you, most cylinders, even if SS, are usually supplied through copper pipes, so that presumably does at least some good (albeit the solubility of copper/salts in cold water is probably very low).

As I've also observed, I'm not sure why we only hear of this issue in relation to Legionella. Is it perhaps because that particular bug is able to proliferate in relatively nutrient-free (particularly organic-nutrient-free) environments, whereas most pathogens are not?

Kind Regards, John
 
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I'm sure that's true. However, as far as I am aware, most of the 'impurities' are minerals, whereas most living organisms (maybe Legionella is an exception {as, apparently, are some very deep-see a creatures} I'll try to discover) need organic nutrients, which I imagine are pretty lacking in most tap water (but, again, I may be wrong).
Tap water is not pure and contains a cocktail of impurities - some of which are desirable for giving it a "good taste".
I would speculate that some bacteria are good as living off small amounts of nutrients.
Given your 'predictions of doom', I'm a little surprised that you have not noted that copper pipework is gradually being replaced by plastic!
That is indeed a good observation. I've got a bit of a pile of plastic pipe in a corner of the back garden that's been pulled out of this house. Some of it because it's been replaced with copper, a fair bit of it because it was redundant :rolleyes:
All true. I've often wondered why they don't put lumps of copper in stainless steel cylinders to at least partially address that issue.
I suspect it's not so much the copper dissolved in the water, but copper pipes/tanks will have hostile surfaces that are harder for the bugs to colonise. I.e., if they can't form a nice habitat on the surfaces, it's going to be much harder for them to grow wildly rather than just get flushed away with water usage.
As I've also observed, I'm not sure why we only hear of this issue in relation to Legionella. Is it perhaps because that particular bug is able to proliferate in relatively nutrient-free (particularly organic-nutrient-free) environments, whereas most pathogens are not?
I've tried to have a look, but all I can find are various sites stating that "legionella is the most common ..." But I suspect the main reason we hear mostly about it is because Legionnaires disease is fatal to a significant proportion of people who catch it, while other illnesses (including those due to other forms of legionella such as Pontiac Fever) aren't.
 
Tap water is not pure and contains a cocktail of impurities - some of which are desirable for giving it a "good taste".
Indeed - but, as I said, most of those 'impurities' are (inorganic) 'minerals' and, to the best of my knowledge, very few living organisms (other than things like the 'deep sea' ones' I mentioned) can survive and thrive on just that.
I would speculate that some bacteria are good as living off small amounts of nutrients.
As I said, we have the Laws of Physics, as well s biological issues, to consdier and satisfy. The (not insignificant) mass of countless millions (or billions) of bacteria has to come from a corresponding 'not insignificant' mass of the nutrients that have 'consumed'. It's more a question of what types of 'nutrients' a particular species of organism can make use of.
I suspect it's not so much the copper dissolved in the water, but copper pipes/tanks will have hostile surfaces that are harder for the bugs to colonise. I.e., if they can't form a nice habitat on the surfaces, it's going to be much harder for them to grow wildly rather than just get flushed away with water usage.
For what it's worth, I would personally doubt that. Very tiny amounts of 'dissolved copper' (primarily copper salts) are very toxic to microorganisms. I remember an illustration of this when I was at school. We looked at a drop of 'pond water' under a microscope, and saw countless little micro-things (I imagine larger than bacteria) 'buzzing around all of the place. We then touch the edge of the water drop with the end of a piece of copper wire, and all of those previously 'live' organisms instantly became motionless, ssumed dead.
I've tried to have a look, but all I can find are various sites stating that "legionella is the most common ..." But I suspect the main reason we hear mostly about it is because Legionnaires disease is fatal to a significant proportion of people who catch it, while other illnesses (including those due to other forms of legionella such as Pontiac Fever) aren't.
Unless we can discover something different, in terms of environmental/nutritional requirements, about Legionella, on has to assume that similar considerations apply to many (maybe most) other bacteria - and, despite what you say, there are plenty of other bacteria that can be transmitted by aerosol and which result in illnesses with a significant mortality.

One has to wonder whether we would ever had heard much about this had the 'initial' publicised outbreak not been in such a large population (of 'legionnaires'/veterans), a significant number of whom died.

Kind Regards, John
 
Some interesting reading here:


It is believed that the legionella bacteria can gain nutrients from formations of a 'biofilm' matrix.
The biofilm developes in areas of stagnant water in the pipework i.e. deadlegs, or pipes filled with scale or magnetite.
The rough surface and reduced flow aid in the formation of the biofilm.

The linked paper shows that copper pipework does inhibit legionella growth, but interestingly, iron released from system corrosion (within limits), seems to be necessary for growth.

Unless we can discover something different, in terms of environmental/nutritional requirements, about Legionella, on has to assume that similar considerations apply to many (maybe most) other bacteria -
I'm afraid I don't know much about the details, but Legionella does seem particularly 'peculiar' :)

From the abstract...
This bacteria exhibits peculiar and multiple strategies to adapt to stressful environment conditions which normally impair
other germ survival.
 
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Whenever I read a thread about Legionella this image pops into my mind








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Cinder-ella was called that because she worked among the cinders.

She had a sister who worked in a pie shop.
 
If you use a straight resistance heater to heat your bath it'll take you a long time to save for a heat pump, because all your pound notes will go on the electricity bill!

How about a combi boiler converted to LPG and bottled/delivered gas? Oil boiler?

I don't really think there is a magic bullet for your situation.. All the "cheap" running cost options are relatively high setup costs. The option you have available already is high running cost.

Not taking a bath is probably best; you can get clean using a shower using far less hot water
I thought air source heat pumps or ground source heat pumps were the magic bullet!
Low cost to install, cost 5p per annum to run and heat enough water to bathe 5000 homes...each with a family size of 12, and having 3 baths each per day
Or did I believe the hype and this is not the case?
 
Think you might be confusing it with the one about the bread and the fish, but to be in with a chance make sure the installer has long hair and a beard
 

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