1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

Boiler quote due deligence

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by inkypinky, 24 Apr 2018.

  1. inkypinky

    inkypinky

    Joined:
    28 Jan 2011
    Messages:
    76
    Thanks Received:
    1
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Hello All,

    I have got few quotes for replacing our existing Keston C25 (25 kW). We are changing boiler location due to twin flue which goes from our kitchen into living room and out into garden.
    The quotes range from £1850 (worcester 24Ri, 5 yr warranty) , £2000 (worcester 18Ri, 5 yr), £2840 (worcester, 18Ri, 7 yr) and then british gas (£3300, Worcester, 24Ri), EnergyCare (Valiant system - £3400 - confused why system), we have a unvented megaflow hot water storage tank with red presurre vessel.

    Our house is fairly new build 2004 and radiators are not that big, so couple of questions I have are

    1. is 24Ri too much over spec for the boiler will it continue to cut off and be less efficient, what should it be 15Ri or 18Ri ?

    2. for cheapest quote installer is saying that we buy the material directly and he will install as per manufacturer's instructions, register boiler and do the required paper work.

    My question is shall i agree for that, or am i likely to face issues when there are issues in future?

    what are your thoughts
     
  2. Motman

    Motman

    Joined:
    27 Feb 2017
    Messages:
    3,800
    Thanks Received:
    437
    Location:
    Essexshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    If you already have a 25kw boiler, surely a 24kw boiler won’t be over spec? 15kw may be too low. Did any of them do a heat loss calculation to determine boiler size? I had BG round last week, I have a 18Kw boiler, they calculated my heat loss as 14.3kw so in my case they said a 15Kw will be suitable. An 18Kw would be a waste.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    13,591
    Thanks Received:
    1,061
    Location:
    Sussex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    That surprises me. Wouldnt a heating engineer get trade discount? It doesnt seem the sort of product where you would get the customer to buy.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

    Joined:
    1 Jul 2007
    Messages:
    56,042
    Thanks Received:
    9,422
    Location:
    Hertfordshire & London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Engineer is trying to avoid VAT registration and also is able to slide warranty responsibility if the client supplies. No reason why a trade discount is passed onto the client so that is meaningless.

    A system boiler is what the OP has already hence what he is being quoted for now.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. muggles

    muggles

    Joined:
    28 Oct 2005
    Messages:
    10,960
    Thanks Received:
    2,141
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Due diligence would be to avoid Worcester, especially the Ri which is particularly nasty...

    Beyond that, choose the installer who has done a proper heat loss calculation on your house to find out what size boiler you actually need, rather than just sizing it based on what you currently have. Also consider choosing someone who has mentioned upgrading your controls to more energy efficient ones, and of course is including a powerflush in their price.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    13,591
    Thanks Received:
    1,061
    Location:
    Sussex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Oh I see, the VAT registration makes sense.

    I wondered because I wouldve thought a heating engineer would get a decent trade discount, so he could make a decent margin, which he needs to in order to cover the cost of any warranty time etc.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. Paulj48

    Paulj48

    Joined:
    7 Jun 2014
    Messages:
    334
    Thanks Received:
    35
    Location:
    Manchester
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    wouldn't the warranty be covered by the manufacturer and not the installer anyway?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. muggles

    muggles

    Joined:
    28 Oct 2005
    Messages:
    10,960
    Thanks Received:
    2,141
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Not any more - the Internet has killed the good old days of making a margin on materials
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Like Like x 1
  9. muggles

    muggles

    Joined:
    28 Oct 2005
    Messages:
    10,960
    Thanks Received:
    2,141
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    The boiler warranty is, but the workmanship warranty is very much up to the installer. It's also usual for an installer to attend a reported breakdown before calling the manufacturer
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    13,591
    Thanks Received:
    1,061
    Location:
    Sussex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Yes but I bet with the complexity of modern boilers a heating engineer must have to provide a level of after sales care, even if its phone call advice, unexpected niggles etc. The boiler and parts have to ordered, collected, faulty parts exchanged etc etc.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. inkypinky

    inkypinky

    Joined:
    28 Jan 2011
    Messages:
    76
    Thanks Received:
    1
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    thanks all for your inputs,

    It looks like they are not vat registered, so asking me to buy material directly. Interesting point is "passing of warranty", the installer will provide 1 year workmanship warranty and then 5 yr parts & labour from worcester directly. The installer will give me a trade supplier to buy it from - possible commission from them to installer but don't know.

    on avoiding Worcester Ri what issues have been there on the boiler and can you give an alternate recommendation please.

    none of them had done the heat lost calculation and powerflush is not included in price it's only chemical flush, magnaclean is included in quotes.

    so what questions should i go back to them with, sorry do not have much idea so excuse for silly questions.
     
  12. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

    Joined:
    1 Jul 2007
    Messages:
    56,042
    Thanks Received:
    9,422
    Location:
    Hertfordshire & London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Installers still have to provide warranty support on some level.

    Well the decent ones do.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. inkypinky

    inkypinky

    Joined:
    28 Jan 2011
    Messages:
    76
    Thanks Received:
    1
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    how much should be a standard installers warranty apart from manufacturers, they are giving 1yr workmanship warranty - all of them
     
  14. Motman

    Motman

    Joined:
    27 Feb 2017
    Messages:
    3,800
    Thanks Received:
    437
    Location:
    Essexshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Until I had advice on here, I wouldn’t have been any the wiser about getting a heat loss calculation before changing a boiler.
     
  15. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

    Joined:
    1 Jul 2007
    Messages:
    56,042
    Thanks Received:
    9,422
    Location:
    Hertfordshire & London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Many of us can do a pretty good heat loss "appraisal" just by walking around. Just because one wasn't immediately obvious doesn't mean it wasn't done on some level.
     
    • Like Like x 3
Loading...

Share This Page