Boilermate 3 radiators not working

[sbullet]

Hi A long one but I though I would try and give as much info as possible for anyone who is able to provide some help if you can.

I have a boilermate 3 upstairs and potterton suprima 70 boiler downstairs. The hot water is fine and I have no problems. I do have problems with the radiators particularly downstairs; these are cold. The one next to the potterton may be hot or warm. I have had British Gas out 4 times so far all giving different reasons for the problem.
BG engineer 1: Said valve was stuck so he freed it up and said that should solve problem (Not sure if he meant diverter valve though it is the one with a moving arm/lever on it)
BG engineers 2:Thermostatic valves on radiators stuck so he banged them and freed pins. This helped for a couple of days
BG engineer 3:balanced radiators. This helped for a few days
BG engineer 4: Did nothing but said these systems are renound for sludge build up. I though he was leading toward getting me to have a powerflush from BG so I was waiting for the £700 question... but No. He said the the manufacturer of the system does not recommend it so BG will not do a powerflush of the boilermate 3. He said the only way is to actually take out the boilermate 3 tank and tip it upside down to empty the sludge out but BG do not cover this under the homecare agreement. I would have hoped that Britich Gas would have mentioned this to me if there was an issue with these systems.

I asked him if the pump could be at fault (Not the one going to the heat exchanger - the other one!) (It gets hot and sound like it is vibrating ok) He said he could try and is due to replace this in the week. He checked one of the radiators to see if there was sludge coming out of the hallway one . The water was black and free flowing as you would expect but not exactly sludge. The pipes going to all the radiators are 8mm I think so this may not help but would this cause a blockage with sludge if sludge was an issue? The upstairs rads get quite hot though the bathroom radiators upstairs are warm to cold. It is a 5 bed house with three bathrooms so we have 7 radiators upstairs + 3 bathrooms towel radiators and 8 radiators downstairs.

The pins on most of the radiator thermostaic valves seem OK though when I banged the valve in the bedroom upstairs and move the pin it releases some hot water through the radiator so it looks like this one has a tendancy to get stuck. I have left this permanently on at the moment.

So far BG have not replaced parts or valves. Do British Gas have an unwiritten rule to do what they can in labour ie freeing and banging valves so they do not need to supply parts? They seem reluctant to change any parts not that I am an expert!!!

One other thing there is a red light flashing (looks like number 14) on the boilermate 3 diagnostic panel . I can just see it through the holes in the side!

Many thanks

Chris

 

[nickso]

not sure why he hasnt recommended a flush TBH, i would. if the system has black crap in it it needs doing IMO. the BM3 can be isolated from the rads and boiler and the flush done on those parts alone, its a **** job but its common practice round here. do you have drop feeds to the rads downstairs?

once the sludge is in the BM there is no real way of getting it out, tipping it upside down is a new one ive not heard but its hardly practical....they weight a ton.

rads pins sticking is another classic symtom of ****e in the system coating the pins and valve seats and jamming them. you are heading for a big fall, if he changes the pump and it makes no difference then by the terms and conditions of your contract they will probably refuse to do any more water related repairs as they have informed you of the problem and you need to rectify it one way or another before normal service resumes.

ask him for a copy of the T+C's of you dont already have them.

 

[sbullet]

just found out that his manager is coming along with the BG man today to look at the problem. Not sure if that means they are hoping the pump wont work so they can not carry on with the contract (His witness!!!)

 

[nickso]

just found out that his manager is coming along with the BG man today to look at the problem. Not sure if that means they are hoping the pump wont work so they can not carry on with the contract (His witness!!!)

thats fine but you have misunderstood, they are carrying on with the contract just not the bits you want done.

 

[doitall]

Boilermate = sludgebucket.

Take the pumps out and they will be blocked solid.

 

[Goldberg]

Boilermate = sludgebucket.

Take the pumps out and they will be blocked solid.

So you think a blocked pump could be the cause of poor circulation to the downstairs radiators? If only more people knew about this theory....

 

[weargas]

is the boiler thermostat (on the suprima) turned up to it's highest setting? If it isn't and the hot water store doesn't quite reach it's target temperature, (even though it may be hot enough for use) then it may not switch over into ch mode.

 

[sbullet]

Thermostat on boiler at max yes. BG replaced the pump yesterday and drained the system (Did not flush though) and was fine last night but this morning was cold downstairs. I will check again tonight . They said a flush would cost £1000 which would NOT include replacing the other pump on heat exchanger or any valves on radiators and they could only flush system and not the boilermate itself as the manufacturers do not recommend it. They said they would put a filter on the cyclinder to stop sludge from getting to the radiators once the flush is done. They said I could get someone else to do it but they would not guarantee the work... what ever that meant. Is £1000 a lot for that? I have a 5 bed house with 13 radiators. Thanks for all the comments everyone!

 

[doitall]

Why not have the sludge bucket ripped out, and an unvented cylinder installed.

Did they even bother to check the other pump.

 

[nickso]

why bother to check a pump that has nothing to do with the heating?

£1000 isnt far off the mark for a flush magnaclean and all the dicking around that goes with a BM flush. you are not going to get a flush, filter, unvented, new pump, controls and labour to fit it for £1000 either.

you have choices.

1) do as BG says for £1000 knowing that the flush on the system is guaranteed for life and if it needs redoing it will be done for free with a couple of small proviso's. also be aware that the BM, if its ****ed, will not be covered in any way and its replacement will be largely out of your pocket with perhaps a token discount from BG.

2) get a third party to flush it and see what terms they provide after they do the work.

3) splash the cash now on a new cylinder arrangement and probably save yourself a load of hassle in the long run.

its probably down to your bank balance.

 

[sbullet]

Thanks for the advice.

No they didnt look at the other pump but as you said not related to the central heating.
Its been about a week now since BG came to replace the pump and I am getting hot radiators upstairs and cold radiators downstairs still. Not being an expert, I dont understand why the supply pipe to the radiators (i.e the ones that go into the thermostatic valves) are hot and the joints are hot on the valve but this hot water is not going into the radiator to heat it.
This is the same on almost all the downstairs rads bar a couple. Could this be all the valves are stuck (Surely not all of them??) I have tried a few things which seem to work and that involves checking the pins and depressing them a few times and then banging the valve with a sharp knock. Voila! The radiators heat. i would say the pins are NOT jammed and are free on all the rads so could this be a blockage in the pipe or could the valves still be buggered? I remember needing to replace a valve once in my previous house even though the pin seemed fine. A new thermostatic valve sorted this so a free pin does not automatically suggest the valve is ok???? Yes or No!!!???

Thanks

 

[nickso]

its not likely to be faulty trv's. too much of a coincidence for them all to be faulty anyway.

a hot inlet and stone cold outlet on a rad indicates a blocked return. im still guessing you have drop feeds to each downstairs radiator, if thats the case then its a classic problem for a BM system.

 

[mickyg]

get the thing ripped out, rads flushed and UV installed. These things are nothing but trouble and your now at a point with your BG contract where they will require you to start paying out anyway.

 

[sbullet]

Thanks for the advice. its been helpful. The rads seem to be working now downstairs now that heating is on. Go figure???! Not sure how long that will last. Is there a need to add in a new cyclinder these days? Why not put in a combi that does not require a cylinder? If you have three ensuites will the pressure not be enough from a combi?

 

[mickyg]

you won't be able to use 3 outlets at the same time with a combi and 2 will be a struggle for all but the largest. The advice is based on you keeping your existing boiler which will probably be good for a fair few years as long as it gets flushed as well.