Boilermate 3 radiators not working

[morrismini]

A powerflush on any system is £600. Get it cleaned and Spirotech magnaboost on the CH return pipe to the BM. That is easy to empty using a bucket. Fill up with enough X-400, which is about 3 to 4 cans. Then every year put a can in the F&E tank. It will then give no trouble a s the filter will catch the magentite. A DIY job to do once a year when clean. Empty filter every other week until water clear, then once a year.

The sludge is created in the rads - the ferrous. A thermal store does highlight the problem. In normal "neglected" systems the sludge collects in the rads and boiler tubes reducing boiler and rad efficiency. The sludge collects in a thermal store because the velocity of the water containing the iron solids reduces as it runs through the store. The solids drop to the bottom of the store. The sludge is just moved from one place to another.

On the Continent they have domed tops and bottoms of cylinders. This prevents the sludge collecting in the store, but will deposit it in the boiler and rads. In other words the problem is still there, it is just not apparent, and puts the installer a comfort zone, as a direct rad system does - like taking out the oil light bulb in a car's dash, so the driver thinks there is nothing wrong, when there is.

The secret is good maintenance - dosing every 4 years and having a decent filter. This applies to "all" system of any type. The Spirotech Magnaboost is good because it grabs "all" solids and easy to flush out, if the inhibitor weakens.

The CH section can be off a coil in the store, keeping any sludge generated in the rads. But it will not eliminate the problem as it is still there. If sludge in the rad loop the system still works but inefficiently.

The best way to "totally" eliminate sludge is not have ferrous in the system at all, many UFH systems have no ferrous using bronze pumps. However a full dosage in a thermal store and 1 litre added every year on a boiler service, or poured in by the user. will stop any sludge build up in the first place.

Some thermal stores have a large access plug to remove debris at the bottom of the store.

Some stores can have sludge removed by removing the immersion and the sludge removed mainly by hand - with a glove.

Replacing the store with an unvented cylinder will not remove the problem, as it is still there.

 

[mickyg]

thermal stores, in particular geldhill boilermates, encourage corrosion due to low flow and rubbish build from shoddy materials. Flushing the rads out and replacing with a UV WILL eliminate the problem. the thermal sludge collector is the problem.

 

[nickso]

and while you are spending all this money, and assuming your boiler is suitable, make sure the system is converted to a sealed system.

 

[morrismini]

thermal stores, in particular geldhill boilermates, encourage corrosion due to low flow and rubbish build from shoddy materials.

Shoddy materials? That is new to me. Read what I wrote above. Sludge is generated in the rads not the cylinder. It is generated when the effect of the inhibitor wears off. It just collects in the cylinder. The problem is moved from the boiler and rads to the cylinder. If maintained properly with X-100 it will not happen. If a Spirotech magnaboost filter is fitted on the CH return pipe, it will not happen even if the system is neglected.

Flushing the rads out and replacing with a UV WILL eliminate the problem. the thermal sludge collector is the problem.

Fitting a UV cylinder will not solve the problem at all. The problem is still there, it has just been shifted - out of sight for longer. In a directly heated rads and cylinder system the rad will fill up and the inside of the boiler will cake up with baked on magentite. The inside of the cylinder coil will also cake up. They will all loose efficiency but still work. The cylinder may loose 25-33% of its reheat time because of a caked coil. The customer does not notice, but their gas and oil bills will rise. The installer then will be away for a long time and cannot be blamed.

A thermal store will emphasise the problem sooner that 's all. Some were fitted with sludge cocks or access caps in case. It is easier to remove the sludge if neglected from one point. As I wrote, having a CH coil in a thermal store solves the problem as the loop where the sludge is generated, the ferrous rads, is isolated.

In a normal system isolating the boiler can be done by using a plate heat exchanger on the rad circuit. The cylinder coil and boiler are isolated and protected. This is sometimes done when a new boiler is connected to an old iron rad loop. The solids and magentite in the system are kept away from the expensive boiler. But a quality magnetic filter can go a long way to giving good protection. I have not come across a thermal store that has had a magnaclean fitted fill with sludge. I know of many 5 years old with them on and no trouble at all.

 

[mickyg]

your completely missing the point. Thermal stores encourage corrosion, UVs do not. simples. once clean and sealed, job done, no constant fathing about.
customers do not want to be constantly chukcing gallons of chemicals into the system, they want to fit and forget, they're not heating engineers!

 

[mickyg]

Shoddy materials?

yes shoddy materials. I take it you don't get to repair many BMs! else you would know what im talking about. your starting to sound like drivel !

 

[doitall]

your completely missing the point. Thermal stores encourage corrosion, UVs do not. simples. once clean and sealed, job done, no constant fathing about.
customers do not want to be constantly chukcing gallons of chemicals into the system, they want to fit and forget, they're not heating engineers!

I don't think morrismini has had much to do with sludgebuckets.

I think the MK II was the worse.

 

[morrismini]

your completely missing the point. Thermal stores encourage corrosion, UVs do not. simples. once clean and sealed, job done, no constant fathing about.

It is apparent you did not understand what I wrote which was clear enough.

Thermal stores DO NOT encourage corrosion, they are non-ferrous. They are a central point where sludge collects rather than it being in the rads and boiler.

Sludge is generated in the rads not the cylinder. It is generated when the effect of the inhibitor wears off. It just collects in the cylinder. The problem is moved from the boiler and rads to the cylinder. Understand why in rads you get a triangle of cold at the bottom, which is sludge build up. The rads may work at the top.

Fitting a UV cylinder will not solve the problem at all. The problem is still there, it has just been shifted - out of sight for longer. In a directly heated rads and cylinder system the rad will fill up and the inside of the boiler will cake up with baked on magentite. The inside of the cylinder coil will also cake up. They will all loose efficiency but still work. The cylinder may loose 25-33% of its reheat time because of a caked coil. The customer does not notice, but their gas and oil bills will rise. The installer then will be away for a long time and cannot be blamed.

A thermal store will emphasise the problem sooner that 's all. Some were fitted with sludge cocks or access caps in case. It is easier to remove the sludge if neglected from one point. As I wrote, having a CH coil in a thermal store solves the problem as the loop where the sludge is generated, the ferrous rads, is isolated.

By putting in an unvented cylinder it is the same as removing the oil light inside the car when there is a fault. The driver thinks all is fine, when it is not

Unvented cylinders do not magically remove sludge generation when the effects of the inhibitor wears off, as you firmly believe.

There are sealed thermal stores available and no sludge has accumulated in them to my knowledge.

customers do not want to be constantly chukcing gallons of chemicals into the system, they want to fit and forget, they're not heating engineers!

I would not call every 4 years constantly. They need to do that with any system every 4 years anyhow.

It comes down to re-dosing and having a magnetic filter on the rad loop return to make sure and all is fine. Saying that, that is the same for any type of system.

 

[morrismini]

your completely missing the point. Thermal stores encourage corrosion, UVs do not. simples. once clean and sealed, job done, no constant fathing about.
customers do not want to be constantly chukcing gallons of chemicals into the system, they want to fit and forget, they're not heating engineers!

I don't think morrismini has had much to do with sludgebuckets.

I think the MK II was the worse.

The mk 2 Mini was excellent.

 

[doitall]

your completely missing the point. Thermal stores encourage corrosion, UVs do not. simples. once clean and sealed, job done, no constant fathing about.
customers do not want to be constantly chukcing gallons of chemicals into the system, they want to fit and forget, they're not heating engineers!

I don't think morrismini has had much to do with sludgebuckets.

I think the MK II was the worse.

The mk 2 Mini was excellent.

It was indeed, unlike the boilermate.

 

[morrismini]

your completely missing the point. Thermal stores encourage corrosion, UVs do not. simples. once clean and sealed, job done, no constant fathing about.
customers do not want to be constantly chukcing gallons of chemicals into the system, they want to fit and forget, they're not heating engineers!

I don't think morrismini has had much to do with sludgebuckets.

I think the MK II was the worse.

The mk 2 Mini was excellent.

It was indeed, unlike the boilermate.

Put a Spirotech magnaboost filter on. And of course enough X-100.

 

[doitall]

Like 6-7 Gallons

 

[morrismini]

Like 6-7 Gallons

In commercial system maybe. Generally 3 litres is enough once every 4 years. Follow the makers instructions.

 

[doitall]

Like 6-7 Gallons

In commercial system maybe. Generally 3 litres is enough once every 4 years. Follow the makers instructions.

No where near enough in a sludge bucket, and in any case you would need to un-install the bucket to clean it out every 4 years.

 

[morrismini]

Like 6-7 Gallons

In commercial system maybe. Generally 3 litres is enough once every 4 years. Follow the makers instructions.

No where near enough in a sludge bucket, and in any case you would need to un-install the bucket to clean it out every 4 years.

You need to read my posts on this thread. You are typical of many on this forum are just noise and add little value.