Bond or not to Bond That is the Question

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Hi can anyone help me, and before anyone says yes I will have the wiring checked before switching on, but want to get as much of it correct myself before doing so.

In the utility room there is a double power point and two double poled isolating switches above a work surface all of which are part of the kitchen and utility ring main.

2.5mm2 spur cables has been run vertically below each double pole isolating switch to single socket outlets below the work surface, to plug a washing machine and tumble drier into respectively.

Below the two socket the outlets, hot and cold water pipes will be running which could be touched at the same time as pulling the plug, and yes if I operate the isolating switches the single socket outlets will be dead.

Above the work surface I can touch the taps and the electrical fittings if I try.
In days gone by even though the ring main has an earth wire in it, usually a 1.5mm2 cpc together with 2.5mm2 conductors.

A further earth wire in 2.5mm2 or 4.0mm2 if not mechanically protected would be run from the socket outlet or isolating switch and bonded onto a water pipe as an added precaution so there would not be any potential difference between the plumbing and electrical fitting under fault conditions.

Question: As any of the five fittings could be touched whilst being in contact with the plumbing would I have to daisy chain them with a 2.5mm2 where protected and then a 4.0mm2 where the cable connects onto the pipework, or is there no need these days as ring mains are protected by RCDs.

I know I could just bond anyway, as the saying goes if in doubt bond it anyway.
It’s easy enough to put the side cutters through it if not required, but could be a sod to put it in after if needed.


Many thanks to anyone who just loves to read a copy of the IEE wiring regs before going to bed at night.
 
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Supplementary bonding isn't required in a utility room, I take it the main bonding is in place where the water enters the premises?
 
Thanks for the prompt reply spark123, yep the main 10mm2 bonding is in onto the gas and rising water main.

Can I pick your brain a bit more in the same room there is lighting circuit switch, which could be touched at the same time as a tap, as the lighting circuit is not on an RCD would I have to bond the metal box for the surface mounted switch to a water pipe or is there just no point.

Do you know is true that there is no need to bond radiators which are in bathrooms these days, I know not so long ago one had to scrap the paint off them and attach a small earth clamp to them for earth connection.

I shall be installing 240v down lighters in the bathroom to IP44 and IP65 above the bath and in the shower cubical. Do you know if it’s ok to use 240v lighting in these zones and I’ve heard only heard mind you, that lighting in a bathroom has to be RCD protected according to the 17th Edition, do you know if this correct?

I shall be putting a shaver point in just to the right of the wash basin, I’ve been looking at one on the screwfix website it has an outlet for 240v and 110v and no built in light, would it need to be bonded do you know?

Thanks again for your time
 
None of the scenarios you mention would require supplementary.

You must ensure that ALL circuits in the bathroom are RCD protected, and all main bonding is in place to negate the need for supplementary bonding. (You are correct that supplementary bonding was required until the recently published 17th edition regulations came into force)

I think it has, but make sure your shaver socket has an integral isolating transformer as it will be located in a bathroom.

How high is the ceiling above the bath and shower? This makes a difference to which zone they are in, and therefore the suitability of your fittings.
 
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Hi RF Lighting I’ll check that one out about the isolating transformer in the shaver.

The height from floor to ceiling is 2.29 metres, obviously it will be less than this measured from inside the bath and also from inside the shower tray, the light fittings IP44 is protected against solid objects exceeding 1.0mm and splashing water, IP65 is dust tight and with protection against water jets.

IP66 is dust tight and protection against heavy seas, but I don’t think I will be splashing about with my plastic ducks to that extent lol.

Many thanks for your comments, I will certainly check that one out about the shaver, what do you think about the suitability of the light fittings?
 
RF Lighting (When you say I’m correct that supplementary bonding was required until the recently published 17th edition regulations came into force)

Another thing which used to be done was to cross bond all the pipes of a central heating boiler, for example the flow and return pipes from an indirect hot water cylinder and the flow and return from the central heating and the gas feed pipe to the boiler would all be bonded daisy chain fashion, are you saying this is no longer a requirement.

As I said to sparky 123 the wiring will be checked when I’ve finished and the above bonding can easily be put in, but I guess it’s nice to know I’ve got in if its required, job satisfaction an all that.

Thanks again Clive
 
It has never been a requirement to cross bond a boiler as long as I have been in the industry.

I'm not sure if it was a requirement of a previous set of regulations? I'm sure one of the old people who post on here can help. (SS ;) )

It seems plumbers still like to cross bond boiler pipes. I don't know if this is a gas regulation, or just something they like to see.

As sparkyspike says, adopting a bond everything attitude is not good. Metalwork may be safer under fault conditions if it is not connected to earth.
 
Thanks guys for your comments, I think I will leave the cross bonding out in the kitchen and to the boiler.

Can I ask again, do you know if the 240v IP44 and IP65 down lights will be ok in the zones above the bath and shower, obviously they will run through an RCD.

When the 17th Edition states electrics in the bathroom require to be on an RCD, am I right in assuming it also includes light fittings which are cord operated ie. a mirror with built in lighting.
 
Although, when the boiler is installed, it probably has a sound metallic connection to all the pipes, I understand that plumbers cross-bond the pipes round the boiler because, when they take the boiler off/put it back, it is no longer connecting all the pipes, and they might have one pipe in one hand, and another pipe in the other hand.

Each of the pipes might go off to somewhere where there might be an electrical fault (e.g. an immersion heater, a shower pump, or something).

BTW my installers today used some kind of non-contact volt stick which told them the boiler was live, even with the FCU off. It also to;fd them the wall was live, and the installers hand was live :eek:
 

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