Boris Boondoggle

[SirGalahad]

So Boris has signed off on HS2. It will be a spectacular white elephant and waste of money costing over £100bn.

Just to put that into context.

The UK economy in total (thats all the brexiters, remainers, and entertainer..) only grew by £29bn in 2019. With current anemic projections of growth being in line with this then HS2 would equate to about 3-4 years of headline GDP growth.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp

 

[noseall]

Yes but won't some wealthy Tories become rich?

 

[Brigadier]

Yes but won't some wealthy Tories become rich?

Haven't you been listening?

When it starts shifting the truckloads of filthy lucre oop North, we'll all need braces to hold our trousers up

 

[Brigadier]

Haven't you been listening?

When it starts shifting the truckloads of filthy lucre oop North, we'll all need braces to hold our trousers up

Not you, @Notch7, us "northerners"

 

[fillyboy]

So Boris has signed off on HS2. It will be a spectacular white elephant and waste of money costing over £100bn.

Just to put that into context.

The UK economy in total (thats all the brexiters, remainers, and entertainer..) only grew by £29bn in 2019. With current anemic projections of growth being in line with this then HS2 would equate to about 3-4 years of headline GDP growth.

Yes but won't some wealthy Tories become rich?

Since New Labour formed HS2 Limited in 2009 there's been various studies and consultations concluding that HS2 will grow the economy (and some reports concluding it wont).
what the heck, it's only money.

Anyway, why shouldn't we have a high speed rail network, it's been around in mainland Europe since the 80's and continues to expand.

 

[SirGalahad]

Yes, and to think of all the money wasted on HS2

could save the NHS a lot of money

All you have left is false claims and insults.

Looks like Filly once again shoots himself in both feet.

 

[Notch7]

My rather limited understanding of HS2 is that it is not such a waste of money.

it has been very badly mis sold.
mostly the claims are that its only benefit is saving 27mins of journey times

but the main advantage is to take the fast non stop trains off existing track
non stop trains massively reduce capacity as all the local and stopping trains cant occupy the track whilst the fast trains are running

without the fast trains the existing train lines can massively increase capacity.

the big criticism of HS2 is that the decision to make it super fast meant cutting out all tight bends, which makes the cost so much higher -that part seems to be a vanity project element.

 

[SirGalahad]

My rather limited understanding of HS2 is that it is not such a waste of money.

it has been very badly mis sold.
mostly the claims are that its only benefit is saving 27mins of journey times

but the main advantage is to take the fast non stop trains off existing track
non stop trains massively reduce capacity as all the local and stopping trains cant occupy the track whilst the fast trains are running

without the fast trains the existing train lines can massively increase capacity.

the big criticism of HS2 is that the decision to make it super fast meant cutting out all tight bends, which makes the cost so much higher -that part seems to be a vanity project element.

By the time it actually arrives you think other technology such as automated cars would make a bigger difference?

All HS2 will do is increase the London catchment area so London can continue sucking in resources. This does not help the North /South divide. It sustains London.

 

[pete50]

Gosh I wish I was an expert, so many experts. I wonder why they insist on doing such lowly jobs and are not running the country.

 

[Notch7]

Gosh I wish I was an expert, so many experts. I wonder why they insist on doing such lowly jobs and are not running the country.

you dont need to be an expert to run the country, just an ability to lie better than anybody else

 

[JohnD]

Gosh I wish I was an expert

If you were a dishonest multi-millionaire Old Etonian with a bluff and plausible manner and no shame, you too would be well-equipped to be a successful con-man.

 

[SirGalahad]

Gosh I wish I was an expert, so many experts. I wonder why they insist on doing such lowly jobs and are not running the country.

So you dismiss the points because its not from an expert but when experts give an opinion you dismiss it because we don't need experts.

The mind of a blinkered person.

 

[SirGalahad]

Your party is not your football team. Blind loyalty does not create a functioning democracy.

 

[IT Minion]

By the time it actually arrives you think other technology such as automated cars would make a bigger difference?

All HS2 will do is increase the London catchment area so London can continue sucking in resources. This does not help the North /South divide. It sustains London.

Not really. Cars are rubbish at mass transit over long distances. You could make them bigger and give them dedicated routes, toilets and desks you can work on, and then you've invented the coach.

HS2 would, if it were here now, make a difference to me as I'd be able to get to clients oop north faster and reduce my need to use the car. Making everyone else's trips on the motorway faster.

Its a pain working with clients split over the country. Making it easier to hop between the London office and the Leeds office makes the Leeds office more practical as well as much cheaper. That can suck more work out of London and into the North.

Is it the best use of public money? Perhaps, perhaps not.

 

[fillyboy]

Looks like Filly once again shoots himself in both feet.

Not really, I'm genuinely warming to the concept, the more I read about it the more potential I see and more benefits, will it increase gdp, lots say it will, I don't know.
If we're hell bent on getting cars off the road, lets get some lorries off the road and get more freight onto trains, not HS2 obviously but I'm assuming it will lift capacity on other lines.

My main gripe was cost, over £100 billion, that's an eye watering amount of money as you described it in terms of annual gdp. BUT, the PFI initiative has put the country over £200 billion in debt, that's even more eye watering isn't it? and you don't hear many people complaining about that.