British Gas care plan, failed boiler, HOW MUCH !

[Phill Peck]

The quotes are made by the computer by adding items and a time allowance.

Aye - they pluck those prices out of the office girl's backside when they put them on the computer though .

Quite possibly, just got the impression people were blaming the guy that quoted as if there's more in it for him

It's not like me quoting and adding on a grand cos the mrs wants a new iPad

 

[SimonH2]

An update.
Once Mum saw a quote from an independent - she needed no persuasion to cancel the BG install. The first quoted around half the price - more or less depending on boiler chosen. She's decided on the Ideal Logic+ based on having a 7 year warranty, and it being a couple of hundred quid cheaper than the Vaillant Ecotec Plus also with 7 year warranty.

The other independent quoted a few hundred quid more - I believe his workmanship is likely to be better, but whether it's a few hundred quid more it's hard to say.

PS - Tony's "quote" wasn't actually that far off that from the local independent that Mum's going with


Now, the next thing we need to decide on is whether to have the existing boiler kept (for later examination) and make a formal complaint about BG. I'm thinking Trading Standards, but is "abuse" of registered status to sell expensive replacements something Cor.. Gas Safe take an interest in ?

 

[ollski]

Now, the next thing we need to decide on is whether to have the existing boiler kept (for later examination) and make a formal complaint about BG. I'm thinking Trading Standards, but is "abuse" of registered status to sell expensive replacements something Cor.. Gas Safe take an interest in ?

What is registered status?, what have you got to complain about?, did you get a second opinion on your second opinion or is it the correct advice if it whats you want to hear?. You got a free quote off bg, stop whining about it say thanks but no thanks and get your boiler fitted.

 

[shambolic]

The flue cast is obsolete but it looks more like just the rubber seal needing replaced at the top. Surface corrosion will be from previous hex job.

 

[SimonH2]

What is registered status?

Really ? In the context you have to ask that But if you're struggling to follow the plot, how about "Gas Safe Registered" which in the eyes of the unenlightened seems to carry more weight than it does.

what have you got to complain about?

How about making up an apparently false reason to declare the boiler DANGEROUS, got to turn it off NOW or it'll kill you - leaving a granny worried and without heating, and because she can't be expected to know what these things cost, willing to accept a grossly inflated quote for a replacement.

From what I've seen myself, from what the independent has said, and from comments here - it's clearly not "ID", at best it could be "at risk" but even that is a bit suspect.

did you get a second opinion on your second opinion or is it the correct advice if it whats you want to hear?

Well that would be the next step wouldn't it ? I believe there's been an attempt to scam my mother, and it's clear from all the stories around that this is neither new, nor isolated, and in fact it would appear that it's institutionally encouraged. Don't know about you, but I'm not the sort of person who doesn't care when criminals get to carry on with impunity - and yes I believe the word criminal is correct to use here.

That's why I believe it is correct to preserve the evidence and get Trading Standards involved - they can choose to get a third opinion if they think it's necessary. Similarly Gas Safe - surely there must be something in their membership about being honest about gas safety matters ?

You got a free quote off bg, stop whining about it say thanks but no thanks and get your boiler fitted.

So you see nothing wrong with scammers then ? Presumably anyone taken in deserves it do they ?


Sorry if this comes across as "rather negative" towards you - but you come across as not giving a sh*t about fraud and scammers.

 

[Phill Peck]

From what I've seen myself, from what the independent has said, and from comments here - it's clearly not "ID", at best it could be "at risk" but even that is a bit suspect.

It clearly is ID that pipe is part of the flue and it is leaking. That is ID
"At risk ...a bit suspect" is ridiculous you would be the first to complain if your mum had been poisoned by co.

wether it is the pipe or a seal that is leaking we can't test that were not there.
Shambolic (who works for ideal) has confirmed that the pipe is not available.
He has suggested it could be a faulty seal which is available. So maybe it could be repaired.
Did the independent you got round not offer to fix it?
Surely he is just the same as BG selling u a boiler you don't need.
Point is wether or not it can be repaired. That flue leaking is an ID situation and the engineer was correct to turn it off.
He obviously felt that it was the pipe leaking (again we can't confirm that)
What BG quoted has nothing to do with him.
Again as I asked earlier have you contacted BG I'm sure the service manager would happily speak to you and explain the situation clearly.

 

[ollski]

As I put up in an earlier post, the boiler is Id if its leaking fumes full stop. I think you are on very shaky ground calling someone criminal based on a retelling of a conversation by your mother whom you are also saying is unable to make her own decisions. Sorry but bg have carried out a service, found a fault, capped as required by the gas regs, offered and provided a quick free survey and quote, arranged work quickly to get your mother back working and cancelled it when you requested all for no extra charge over her contract. All you needed to do was call them back to explain the situation. I suspect the quote was arranged as the 700 discount could only be offered off the back of that job and that a repair was on offer if the quote was not accepted. Bg are usually quite expensive, thats why you usually get multiple quotes.

 

[SimonH2]

The first thing to remember, and which people seem to be forgetting, is that a leak in that part will NOT release combustion products into the property. That's simple engineering.
It'll only cause an increase in CO if there is a gross leak such that the amount leaking from the exhaust back into the intake reduces the oxygen content below that needed to combust the gas that's being used. Assuming the system has been setup lean of stoichiometric (which it would normally be to minimise CO production and give a clean burn), then a tiny leak isn't going to cause an issue.

Note: I'm not suggesting that a flue problem can be ignored, simply that the risk is somewhat overstated. Obviously the regs need to cater for the worst case, and be fairly prescriptive - erring on the side of safety.

The fact that the independent checked the exhaust and found it normal does rather suggest that there isn't a gross leak causing rich combustion and excess CO. I'd also suspect that someone would be "somewhat more careful" about recommissioning an appliance that someone else has declared dangerous - it's somewhat different if asked to justify saying something is safe when someone else has said it's dangerous (and hence you have to justify why you think they were wrong).

And this is not just based on third hand information from Mum - I spoke to the independent that reconnected the boiler on the phone. So that bit is first hand from him. This isn't a dodgy back street operation either.

So yes, I do think it's possibly a matter of fraud. Yes, it's perfectly legal to quote a high price - but it's not legal to fraudulently claim something is broken & dangerous in order to create the need for that expensive replacement IF it wasn't genuinely dangerous. Clearly I have two opposing opinions - which is why I'd want to make sure the boiler is kept so that those responsible (eg Trading Standards) can get their own expert opinion if they feel it's justified.


Now, if you think it's perfectly OK to declare a boiler dangerous for no other reason than to get the owner to buy an expensive replacement from you ....

 

[ollski]

It doesn't matter that is the flue and if it leaks fumes it is ID. That is absolute and a specific requirement in the gas regs we work to. Besides that a leak of fumes is also a leak of moisture which will rot through the case eventually and can only possibly cause more damage and any decent engineer would have to think about the condition that boiler would reach before it was next looked at.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Methinks the OP enjoys pishing in the wind .


(said as someone with love lost for BG).

 

[Steelmasons]

The first thing to remember, and which people seem to be forgetting, is that a leak in that part will NOT release combustion products into the property. That's simple engineering.
It'll only cause an increase in CO if there is a gross leak such that the amount leaking from the exhaust back into the intake reduces the oxygen content below that needed to combust the gas that's being used. Assuming the system has been setup lean of stoichiometric (which it would normally be to minimise CO production and give a clean burn), then a tiny leak isn't going to cause an issue.
....

Really?........and another keyboard fooked..

 

[Dan Robinson]

I wondered why Google was slow this evening .

 

[Phill Peck]

The first thing to remember, and which people seem to be forgetting, is that a leak in that part will NOT release combustion products into the property. That's simple engineering.
It'll only cause an increase in CO if there is a gross leak such that the amount leaking from the exhaust back into the intake reduces the oxygen content below that needed to combust the gas that's being used. Assuming the system has been setup lean of stoichiometric (which it would normally be to minimise CO production and give a clean burn), then a tiny leak isn't going to cause an issue.

Note: I'm not suggesting that a flue problem can be ignored, simply that the risk is somewhat overstated. Obviously the regs need to cater for the worst case, and be fairly prescriptive - erring on the side of safety.

The fact that the independent checked the exhaust and found it normal does rather suggest that there isn't a gross leak causing rich combustion and excess CO. I'd also suspect that someone would be "somewhat more careful" about recommissioning an appliance that someone else has declared dangerous - it's somewhat different if asked to justify saying something is safe when someone else has said it's dangerous (and hence you have to justify why you think they were wrong).

And this is not just based on third hand information from Mum - I spoke to the independent that reconnected the boiler on the phone. So that bit is first hand from him. This isn't a dodgy back street operation either.

So yes, I do think it's possibly a matter of fraud. Yes, it's perfectly legal to quote a high price - but it's not legal to fraudulently claim something is broken & dangerous in order to create the need for that expensive replacement IF it wasn't genuinely dangerous. Clearly I have two opposing opinions - which is why I'd want to make sure the boiler is kept so that those responsible (eg Trading Standards) can get their own expert opinion if they feel it's justified.


Now, if you think it's perfectly OK to declare a boiler dangerous for no other reason than to get the owner to buy an expensive replacement from you ....

You know nothing of combustion.
Here's an example.
Last year I went to a boiler that had a Damaged flue seal, very similar to what u have going on here.
When I tested the flue gases I recorded 30,000 ppm of co and rising after a few mins running.
As you point outthese gases are staying within the appliance, but the smallest leak on a casing seal those gases are in the room and gasman is standing in court facing a murder charge.

Again the engineer has worked to GIUSP and BGs policies.
Along with that the £700 discount applies only to the M series icos. The reason is because parts are becoming obsolete and those boilers cost BG a fortune to maintain.

By all means attempt to sue British Gas.
But first as I have suggested twice. Phone British Gas give them the job reference number on your paperwork and say you want to speak to the manager for that area.
The manager will be able to access the job information, speak to the engineer and explain to u what the situation is.