BT and fiber

[SUNRAY]

I wonder if people are getting carried away with the UPS thing, and if for almost everybody there's an answer in the 80/20, or even 90/10 space, at least in theory.

It seems daft to have a battery, which powers a fancy inverter which produces a nice 230V sine-wave which then powers a power supply which then produces low-voltage DC to work the broadband equipment.

Why not just have the battery and charger, and some kind of automatic changeover switch which kicks in and powers the broadband equipment directly from the battery? Would it be a seamless changeover in the event of a power cut? No. Can most people put up with their connection being down for a minute after a power cut, while the equipment re-establishes the connection? Yes.

Essentially you don't need anything complex. Most wallwarts are outputting something significantly higher than is needed for the device it's powering. The only router I've openedhad a 12V input and the supply was more like 15V, internally it went directly to a regulator which I think was 8V. all that's required is to run the device on a battery and have that on a permanent maintenance charge. if you're really concerned about mains failure, add a solar panel too. However bear in mind the roadside pillars containing the fibre distribution kit have no battery back-up.

 

[davelx]

I have a mini ups with 4 dc outputs. Loads of options at a****n

 

[AndyPRK]

So how would you know the phoneline is being called?

Modern wireless phones don’t need a ring signal.
Or you can use an adaptor to generate a ring signal (were some on eBay )
Or wire in your master socket which contains the ring capacitor

 

[AndyPRK]

Regarding battery backup.

I think the OpenReach solutions do use a 12v battery and the adaptor I link does too.

Or just use a mobile phone!

 

[Why Not Indeed]

Unfortunately, The Industry [or, their marketing/sales divisions] decided some time ago that it would be absolutely fine to describe products as being "fibre" even if the fibre doesn't get as far as the customer premises. In my opinion, it is disingenuous [or just fraudulent] to describe copper to the premises as fibre. So what do we call fibre if the word "fibre" has been applied to things which are not fibre?

Essentially you don't need anything complex. Most wallwarts are outputting something significantly higher than is needed for the device it's powering. The only router I've openedhad a 12V input and the supply was more like 15V, internally it went directly to a regulator which I think was 8V. all that's required is to run the device on a battery and have that on a permanent maintenance charge. if you're really concerned about mains failure, add a solar panel too. However bear in mind the roadside pillars containing the fibre distribution kit have no battery back-up.

Voice path on copper services goes all the way back to the exchange, the cabinets only handle the data side of things. So loss of power to cabinet would not affect voice, unless you're running it over the internet.
For actual real genuine fibre broadband, the only active [powered] equipment is at each end, ie in your house and then an exchange. Everything else inbetween is passive.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Unfortunately, The Industry [or, their marketing/sales divisions] decided some time ago that it would be absolutely fine to describe products as being "fibre" even if the fibre doesn't get as far as the customer premises. In my opinion, it is disingenuous [or just fraudulent] to describe copper to the premises as fibre. So what do we call fibre if the word "fibre" has been applied to things which are not fibre?

FTTC denotes fibre from exchange, to a local to you cabinet, then copper from cabinet to your home - limited to around 40Mbps. All the copper lines have been switched, or will be switched to this. FTTC, provides improved speeds, compared to copper wire all the way, exchange to home, which maxed out at 20Mbps.

FTTP is fibre all the way, from exchange, to the Premises, your home, also called 'Full Fibre'. This can be much faster than FTTC - around 1000Mbps.

 

[AndyPRK]

They are also using the term part copper
Now which is a bit clearer.

 

[ebee]

Do you ever consider that manufacturers/retailers might "sometimes" use terms to slightly conceal the meanings of some things in order to advantage themselves now and again unless laws or rules are brought in to deter them?
Surely not, they would never ???

 

[plugwash]

Voice path on copper services goes all the way back to the exchange, the cabinets only handle the data side of things. So loss of power to cabinet would not affect voice, unless you're running it over the internet.

The problem is that those in charge of the industry have decided it's ok to push people away from traditional copper voice and on to "digital voice" (aka VOIP) services, and they are doing this even in places where FTTP is not available.

So people are being pushed from reliable analog voice service onto services that rely on FTTC cabinets with very limited backup power.

 

[plugwash]

FTTP is fibre all the way, from exchange, to the Premises, your home, also called 'Full Fibre'. This can be much faster than FTTC - around 1000Mbps.

IIRC openreach FTTP uses a 2500Mbps signalling rate, but that is shared among up to 32 customers. The maximum for a single customer connection is 1600Mbps.

And importantly on openreach FTTP (altnets may vary) everything between the consumer equipment and the telephone exchange is passive. If you care about resiliance then openreach FTTP should always be preffered over openreach FTTC.

 

[SUNRAY]

Unfortunately, The Industry [or, their marketing/sales divisions] decided some time ago that it would be absolutely fine to describe products as being "fibre" even if the fibre doesn't get as far as the customer premises. In my opinion, it is disingenuous [or just fraudulent] to describe copper to the premises as fibre. So what do we call fibre if the word "fibre" has been applied to things which are not fibre?



Voice path on copper services goes all the way back to the exchange,

All being phased out.

the cabinets only handle the data side of things.

My phone service is now VOIP so very much data based

So loss of power to cabinet would not affect voice, unless you're running it over the internet.

That is exactly my sitaution now for the last year or so

For actual real genuine fibre broadband, the only active [powered] equipment is at each end,

I am on real genuine fibre broadband but the bit from cab to home is copper

ie in your house and then an exchange.

and at the cab

Everything else inbetween is passive.

My service is fibre to the cab, at that point it is distributed, some are fibre to the house, others like mine are copper to the house. I have no copper circuit from the exchange, that is not the way 'full fibre' works. Until a year or so back I was on a fibre internet service piggy backed onto the copper circuit and my analogue phone plugged into the BT master socket, now it plugs into the router and all the DC and ringing current is generated in the router. If the cab down the road loses power I lose all of my internet and phone service. Chances are there may be a mobile phone mast co sited with it (there isn't in my situation) and the chances are that will be on the same electrical supply and for that matter the same fibre service too, in which case chances are the mobile phone service will be gone too as there is very little battery back-up in the network

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

now it plugs into the router and all the DC and ringing current is generated in the router. If the cab down the road loses power I lose all of my internet and phone service.

I would suggest you have that wrong - it is all battery backed, and will continue to work as normal, through a loss of mains power. Fibre can run up to around 20Km, without power, and each strand of fibre, can support upto 32 end user customers. So if you battery back your router, and perhaps your phone installation, they will continue to provide a data connection, and your phone service.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

If you go for FTTP then you'll need to choose a provider who offers VoIP and gives you an ONT with a phone socket on it, or sign up with a separate VoiP supplier and have an adapter which plugs into your router, or buy VoIP phone(s).

wrong, I am on FTTP and my "landline" phone is plugged into the back of the router so you dont always need a Voip service

 

[AndyPRK]

I think early ONT had phone sockets, but not anymore.

Plusnet and Now aren’t selling phone services anymore

 

[plugwash]

My service is fibre to the cab, at that point it is distributed, some are fibre to the house,

Openreach FTTP goes from the exchange to an aggregation node to a splitter node, to a fiber DP, it doesn't use the cabinets.

I would suggest you have that wrong - it is all battery backed, and will continue to work as normal, through a loss of mains power. Fibre can run up to around 20Km, without power, and each strand of fibre, can support upto 32 end user customers. So if you battery back your router, and perhaps your phone installation, they will continue to provide a data connection, and your phone service.

As I keep trying to tell people there is a huge difference between openreach FTTC and openreach FTTP.

With FTTC you are reliant on an active cabinet to translate the fiber from the exchange to the copper to end users. From what I understand those cabinets have limited backup power, they should last a few hours in an outage but beyond that you are likely out of luck. Afaict they were originally intended for low-importance broadband data services only, but our asleep at the wheel regulators have allowed the industry to migrate their voice customers to services that rely on them.

With FTTP you have active equipment at your premesis and at the telephone exchange but everything in between is passive.