BT phone line/service 'upgrade'

[Mister Banks]

FTTC = Fibre To The Cabinet from the exchange. From the cabinet to the customer is over good old copper wire.
FTTP = Fibre To The Customer from the exchange (of which there it is planned there will be less than 1000 remaining).

FTTP is Fibre To The Premises

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

and then select a VOIP service from either their ISP or an independent one using a small VOIP adapter plugged into their hub,

Many/most all, recently - include the VoIP adaptor, built into the modem. Mine have two phone outlets, so I could have two numbers, two lines.

 

[Why Not Indeed]

BT are trying to replace a system with substantial resiliency against power cuts with one with far-less such resiliency.

The user base for copper voice services is dying out. The cost per copper voice line is only going up, so everybody else will have to subsidise this.

 

[morqthana]

So are you suggesting that having an Internet connection should be 'compulsory'?

No.

If "most" can be taken to mean "more than 50%" I'm sure that "most" households have broadband internet. I can't find the actual penetration figure.

Also, I'm sure I read (but again can't find it, which is even more annoying) that Ofcom require BT to provide a basic low-bandwidth VoIP only broadband service for non-broadband customers. Maybe this apparent moving of the A to D conversion point back to the cabinet is a help with that - no kit to provide and install in customers' homes?

 

[JohnW2]

In terms of physical equipment, yes, it will be. Just as it is compulsory for you to have a copper line and an NTE5 or equivalent for your current service.

Sure, but the copper line is, of course, provided as part of the 'telephone service'. It will be fair enough if that is mirrored by ....

.... If you don't want their Internet access then you only pay BT a line & phone services fee as you do now. ....

... but since you would then effectively be paying for an Internet connection that you were not going gto use (other than for the phone), one imagines that is likely to cost 'more than necessary' (for someone who just wants

I'd expect the vast majority of people will take an Internet service over Openreach FTTP from their provider of choice ....

I suspect 'not quite'. In the rural area where I leave, very few of the villages have Openreach FTTP (yet), but in recent times many of the villages have been cabled by Gigaclear - who have therefore presumably become the most obvious provider of both Internet access and phone service.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

... but since you would then effectively be paying for an Internet connection that you were not going gto use (other than for the phone), one imagines that is likely to cost 'more than necessary' (for someone who just wants

I took fibre, earlier in the year, because it the offered fibre was cheaper that continuing, as we were, on FTTC - besides, it was much faster, and rumour had it, that there would soon be no choice..

We were offered 150Mbps, for £24.99, with an option of VoIP for an extra £3, retaining our same number, which we've had since the 60's. I've not heard of any phone only services, being offered over FTTP.

 

[JohnW2]

The user base for copper voice services is dying out. The cost per copper voice line is only going up, so everybody else will have to subsidise this.

Probably true, but it's also probably true that those who want a telephone but not an Internet connection will probably end up effectively having to subsidise those who do want an Internet connection

 

[JohnW2]

If "most" can be taken to mean "more than 50%" I'm sure that "most" households have broadband internet. I can't find the actual penetration figure.

I would be surprised if it were anything like as low as 50%, but even if it were, say, 90%, that would still leave some 2 or 3 million households which didn't have an Internet connection (but many/most of whom might like a 'telephone line').

Also, I'm sure I read (but again can't find it, which is even more annoying) that Ofcom require BT to provide a basic low-bandwidth VoIP only broadband service for non-broadband customers.

Fair enough, but the question surely is what it would cost (for people who did not want a 'broadband connection' at all) ?

 

[Vicario]

I have tried to convince numerous companies/organisations to ring me on my VOIP landline (BT's Digital Voice) but they insist on using my mobile number. Reception here is not good and so for anything important that involves a return call I ask for a landline one. This rarely happens and one girl at a large FTSE100 company actually asked me what a landline was!

 

[AndyPRK]

ppl won't be forced to have an internet connection.

They will however, have fibre into their home, and a box very much like a cut down router to provide the VOIP

Unless of course, common sense prevails.

It's becoming a problem even getting a phone line with an internet connection these days! Plusnet and NOW come to mind. Can't even pay £5 for voice as a new customer.

 

[Vicario]

Does anyone know how many households in the UK don't have a broadband connection? To me, it's like gas and/or electricity these days. I can see why some very elderly people might not have it, but surely we're getting to the point where a broadband line is indispensible. There is a myth that it's the 70/80 year-olds that can't cope but in my experience that's total rubbish; last week I showed a teenage relative how to copy her old phone to the new one and then explained why a SIM lock is so important... and there's exactly 60 years' difference between us.

 

[davelx]

Many/most all, recently - include the VoIP adaptor, built into the modem. Mine have two phone outlets, so I could have two numbers, two lines.

Mine, fortunately, doesn't, as my router is nowhere near where my phone wiring runs. I have a separate little Grandstream voip adapter that plugs into the LAN in the office (aka rear bedroom), which is where the phone wiring runs from, and all the analogue phones hang off that.

 

[JohnW2]

ppl won't be forced to have an internet connection. .... They will however, have fibre into their home, and a box very much like a cut down router to provide the VOIP

Indeed - but that's really just a 'play on words'. They won't be forced to have an internet connection, but they will be 'forced' to have something which could be used as an internet connection - so, as I've said, it really comes down to what they will charge people who don't want an internet connection.

 

[Why Not Indeed]

it's also probably true that those who want a telephone but not an Internet connection will probably end up effectively having to subsidise those who do want an Internet connection

Unlikely. The point is that BT are trying to close ~80% of their exchange locations. An all-fibre access network will mean that they only need 1000 exchanges nationwide.
Keeping exchanges open to serve a handful of copper users is wasteful.
If you move the equipment that serves dialtone from the exchange to a cabinet in the neighbourhood, it's the same problem at a different scale [tens or hundreds of thousands of cabinets you have to keep having around rather than thousands of exchanges].
The other reason that internet-only customers aren't subsidising voice-only customers is because of the ratios of the two populations!

 

[JohnW2]

Does anyone know how many households in the UK don't have a broadband connection?

As I've just written, I would imagine that it's far less than the 50% morqthana was talking about.

To me, it's like gas and/or electricity these days. I can see why some very elderly people might not have it, but surely we're getting to the point where a broadband line is indispensible.

Yes, that is becoming increasingly the case.

There is a myth that it's the 70/80 year-olds that can't cope but in my experience that's total rubbish; last week I showed a teenage relative how to copy her old phone to the new one and then explained why a SIM lock is so important... and there's exactly 60 years' difference between us.

Being in the middle of that 70/80 year-old range, a high proportion of our social circle are in that age group, and I would say that the situation is very 'mixed'. A pretty high proportion of them actually have an Internet connection, but a substantial proportion of them never, or very rarely, use it ("don't know how to use it").

However, that (my!) generation is gradually dying out, such that it won't be too long before what we are left with are people who have never known 'a world without the Internet' - hence, presumably, with ongoing 'expectations'.

The world has changed so much. When (very frequently) I see my daughters reach for their phones to ask Mr Google for some information, I regularly remind them of the corresponding situation in my youth - the hour walk to/from the nearest 'Reference Library', the hour oir two 'searching' befoee I concluded that the library did not have what I needed, so then the wait of a week or two for relevant material to be obtained from the British Library (or wherever), followed by another 1 hour walk to collect it