building regs madness?

[jill44w]

Hi - I am currently going through planning permission for a single storey extension in my mid terrace house. Our architect has spoken with building regs and the current situation is that they say we will need to install a sprinkler system on the ground floor - which will cost around 2k plus additional cost of several hundred pounds from the water company. They are also insisting we need to have a door on our stairs, which i can understand, but we are not convinced about the sprinkler system. Presumably the idea for the door is to stop smoke incase of fire etc but the sprinkler system seems unnecessary to us. unfortunately the new extension means that the stairs to the first floor will start in the middle of the house - therefore not possible to escape downstairs if there is a fire - we would have to escape from the first floor - which is easy from both the front and back. Is this sprinkler system really necessary and given that we are living in the house (i.e. it is not a development as such) is there any way to avoid having a sprinkler system - surely if we have a hardwired smoke alarm system, it will give us plenty of time to get out of the first floor. Responses and advice would be welcome - many thanks.

 

[jeds]

In the most recent edition of the approved documents covering fire, it says something like; sprinklers can be used as a compensatory feature where provisions of the approved document are varied. Sounds to me like you've got an issue with fire escape and BC may have said 'what about a sprinkler. I can't believe it is the only solution in a two storey house but couldn't say much more without full details of the design etc.

 

[jill44w]

thanks for the reply jeds. It is actually a three storey house - through terrace with one bed on first floor and one bed on second floor. The stairs from the ground to the first floor are currently by the back door, but the new extension means they will be in the middle of the house - therefore to get to the outside from the ground floor, we would either need to go through the new extension (kitchen) or through the lounge at the front to get through the front door. There currently isn't a door on the stairs either, but they are saying we would need a door on the stairs and sprinklers on the ground floor - i just don't see the need for sprinklers if we are putting a door on the stairs and can easily escape from the first floor. The only other 'solution' was to completely block of the kitchen, but since we are wanting open plan, they have suggested a sprinkler system. Is there any way we can do without the sprinkler cost and still have the open plan ground floor that we want? Can we refuse to put in the sprinkler system - surely it is our decision if we are living here!?! Thanks

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

As I understand the regs, a sprinkler can be required on the open plan ground floor to enable the occupants to escape from a first floor window. That is when they are fast asleep on the top storey they need enough time to get down a floor and escape. The sprinkler gives them more time to do this. Smoke from fires can overcome escape routes in seconds not minutes. There is no guarantee the new door will be kept shut. The regulations apply to anyone occupying your house now or in the future after you leave. Tis the downside to open plan living. Some would argue that in the event of a fire a sprinkler is a paltry price to pay when you get to live in return! Its only a matter of time before sprinklers become mandatory for all new builds. If your Architect cannot find a way round this and Building Control insist on its installation they will not issue the Final Certificate. As well as putting off future buyers you will also likely invalidate you buildings insurance.

Have you asked your Architect all of this?

 

[jill44w]

thanks for replying freddymercurystwin! Well, it looks like we'll have to save up for the sprinklers. I will also speak again to our architect but he is on holiday and thought it was worth getting some other opinions as well! Thanks again for your comments.

 

[mikric]

As far as I am aware to date there has never been a death due to fire in a dwelling installed with a sprinkler system in the uk. I have seen a few demos and to be honest they are impressive, if I were to build my own new house I would have one in the spec.Have BC not offered any alternative suggestions ?with modern open plan, this issue is becoming quite common place.

 

[big-all]

i know £2.000 is a lot off money
but at between 0.5 and 3percent off the value off your house is it not a good price to pay for your peace off mind and possibly a life or 2

or for a family off 4 you are placing a value off each life thats less than the cost of a large plazma tv

 

[yeahmate]

we had a similar problem and only needed a sprinkler system to the lounge. £1500. We were able to branch off the water main in the basement and avoid the water board. But we did have a pressure check first.

 

[paulandfrodo]

Just a thought....

Depending upon how many heads you need to run at any one time - hopefully only one, you only need to have 49l/min for 10 mins. What i did was get a 500l water tank, put it under the floor boards on the ground floor. Thus did not need to involve the water authority.

I'd be VERY doubtfull not that you could get the flow rate you need from the water supply (I was getting 60l/m and needed 49l/m) but that the Water Authority will guarantee it. Mine only guarantee 7l/m. Mmm

Don't get a smaller tank and work on it refilling whilst it empties - too complicated !! Just get a bigger tank.

Also, you should only need two sprinkler heads. If your lounge is large, make sure you get a drop off 200mm> in the ceiling - this means only one of the heads need to work.

You only need the sprinkler heads in the effected lounge area.

I use Domestic Sprinkler Ltd from Weymouth.. They go to most places in the UK - ask for colin !

Paul

I've also done fully house systems and ones for solving the problem you have...

 

[oph]

I read this with great interest as I converted , or should I say, re-vamped a loft conversion last summer where it was originally done in the 1980's, the Velux GGL8's have been there forever! I went from 4x2's to 9 x2's 'sistering' the joists and sitting them on the ouside wall plates ( its a victorian mid terrace built 1884).
Now, you look around the rest of the town I live in to see how many three storey houses were built in victorian/edwardian times? Bloody STACKS of them.

Do they satisfy current regs, with fire doors, sprinkler systems ets etc etc

Yea right methinks not.

I think that some of the rules in place are a bit much myself