Building survey report.

[Northbeach]

Hi all,

We're currently going through the process of selling our house - we've had our offer accepted on the one we want to purchase and the price on ours was agreed some time ago (give or take one or two places that have fallen through...it really is a 'hold on to your hat and sanity' game!).
We've had a building survey carried our by the buyer of our house and likewise we've had one carried out on the one we wish to buy (report due in today...bit of a heavy tome expected apparently - potential issues etc - will save that for another thread).

This morning we received the following email from the buyers (of our own place) solicitors:
____________________________________________________________

I have today received an email from your buyer’s solicitors regarding an allowance for works required to the property.


They have advised the following works are required:

1. Ground Floor Dampness

2. Ground Floor Timbers

3. Main Roof

4. External Joinery Window Frames

5. Electrical Inspection

They have asked if you would agree to an allowance of £1640.00 in respect of these works.
__________________________________________________________

Obviously they are wanting to knock a bit off the agreed price, but I'm a little dubious about some of the above. Did a bit of reading on similar situations and in the main it appears that the dampness readings are to be taken with a pinch of salt?

Our house was built around 1930's.
*A new roof was laid around 7 years ago.
*A 3 course level of DPC (blue brick) was placed around the house around the same time.
*Around five years ago we had new UPVC double glazed installed across the house.
*The ground floor has either laminate flooring (lounge and hall) or tiled in the kitchen (solid floor).

An electrical inspection is fair enough - the upstairs rooms are woefully inadequate with regard to plug sockets (downstairs there are plenty and the fuse box can't be much older than 15 years). I presume the inspection could potentially raise questions which may require further monetary allowances?

Am I right in questioning the points raised, or does it seem standard for a house of this age? The report from the house we're wanting to buy will be interesting (also 1930's)...but that's another story!

Many thanks.

 

[Static]

Depends how desparate you are to sell.. basic homebuyers reports flag up alot of daft things that may or may not be a problem, cos they are often done by estate agents who took a BTEC course in 1998.. course sometimes they are done by legit surveyors who actually know what they are on about.. rare but can happen..

Anyways its all about identifying items that may have been missed, if the items listed are legit and your building has damp ground floor, rotten floor joists etc then some of it may be justifyable.. ask for them to get builders quotes for what they have listed or do it yourself and then argue the sum.. you can always plainly turn down the figure stating that the property is in the condition they viewed it in and unless the estate agent lied to them they have no real way to demand the money off.. or simply suck it up and accept a tiny figure of what 1% of property price..

To be honest i dont think an electrical inspection is justifyable, would be like asking for a structural engineers report to be paid for, (normally paid by buyer)

 

[Northbeach]

Depends how desparate you are to sell.. basic homebuyers reports flag up alot of daft things that may or may not be a problem, cos they are often done by estate agents who took a BTEC course in 1998.. course sometimes they are done by legit surveyors who actually know what they are on about.. rare but can happen..

Anyways its all about identifying items that may have been missed, if the items listed are legit and your building has damp ground floor, rotten floor joists etc then some of it may be justifyable.. ask for them to get builders quotes for what they have listed or do it yourself and then argue the sum.. you can always plainly turn down the figure stating that the property is in the condition they viewed it in and unless the estate agent lied to them they have no real way to demand the money off.. or simply suck it up and accept a tiny figure of what 1% of property price..

To be honest i dont think an electrical inspection is justifyable, would be like asking for a structural engineers report to be paid for, (normally paid by buyer)

Thanks Static. Your last point (electrical inspection) is exactly what I thought. We've had to pay for our own surveys on the house we are wishing to buy so I'm at a loss how we should be asked to pay for someone else's surveys.
Overall I cannot see how they can justify the points raised e.g. the loft is insulated, roof is virtually brand new and the 'damp proof guy' (who came out a week after the building survey was done) literally raised his head towards the roof, made a few notes and off he went (could not have been at the house for longer than 10-15 minutes (unlike the e-surv guy who was here all morning). We have never had damp so no idea where the ground floor damp is (or how he somehow managed to discover it).

However, we are pretty desperate to sell as the house we're buying is ideal for us (they have already purchased another property). Was hoping to move end of Feb/March. I think we are going to get a juicy report back from our own survey (for the house we're buying). But as long as it's not structurally bad I'll worry about any issues when we get in (plan to refurb straight away anyway). The mortgage survey advised of long standing movement but nothing major to worry about.

Thanks for your advice Static. Think we'll hold firm on this.

 

[Static]

You can always ask for justification of the points, ie the surveys/quotes from builders etc..

Also nearly all "free" surveys will find magical faults with your property..
e-surv are just valuation surveyors who report to the mortgage company.. they may have mentioned a list of standard issues with 1930s properties.. often: cavity wall ties, damp proof course and roof replacement..

 

[Northbeach]

You can always ask for justification of the points, ie the surveys/quotes from builders etc..

Also nearly all "free" surveys will find magical faults with your property..
e-surv are just valuation surveyors who report to the mortgage company.. they may have mentioned a list of standard issues with 1930s properties.. often: cavity wall ties, damp proof course and roof replacement..

...all of which are either pretty new or have been replaced in the last few years. The e-surv guy (who carried out the full building survey) carried out a report but recommended a separate damp survey - which is where the info posted above came from (as I mentioned before, he was here for around 10 mins, did not go upstairs, used the trusty old damp prod and judged the roof needing work merely by glancing up at it on his way out - it's brand blinking new!).

I'm expecting likewise from our own survey at the new place (which, thankfully, also has a brand new roof.

Huge thanks - will ask them some questions here as, otherwise, we may be shelling out for nothing...

 

[big-all]

its entirely your choice

these problems where already factored into the price is all you have to say

if you want you can agree to pay half the actual costs although this can backfire

 

[Northbeach]

its entirely your choice

these problems where already factored into the price is all you have to say

if you want you can agree to pay half the actual costs although this can backfire

Absolutely big-all...tis good to hear some independent advice on the matter - this 'game' (and it's been a royal roller coaster so far) is a little new to us.
My heart (and this has been backed up by the replies to this thread) suggests they may be trying to extract a little capital during the dying embers of the sale.
Back fire - as in...they then pull out? The buyer seems pretty keen and anything like this on the property we've (nearly) purchased would not put me off...most of it will be 'slow gutted' (it's a new technical term!) anyway. Anyhow, still awaiting the building report on that one (I'm sure I'll be back on here then ).

...then (all going well) my refurb questions/queries undoubtedly will begin to formulate!

Many thanks again.

 

[big-all]

well no backfire in the respect they claim remedial work will be £1.6k you suspect it will cost £0.5k so expect to pay half as in 0.25k and it actually costs £3.5k lol

you wouldn't get someone loose a sale for £2k unless they are stupid

 

[jeds]

My advice is to ask for copies of the paragraphs from the survey report which identify those defects. I am a chartered surtveyor and I carry out dozens of surveys which end up in the hands of buyers so this is not an unusual request. What you then do depends on what the report says.

If it refers to generic stuff like typical defects in propertites of this type age etc. then I'd probably tell them to take a hike.

If it identifies specific defetcs then you will have to check them out - or have them checked out - and decide from there.

Standing advice of the IEE is that all electrical systems over 10 years old should either carry an inspection report or be inspected on change of ownership.

Of course you could also decide to take the pragmatic view and either cough up or offer to go half way, just to make the sell.

 

[Geps]

I'm purchasing a 1930s property as we speak and just going through this stage right now.

The main paragraph you want to look at is the one that values the property and gives the surveyors opinion on whether it's worth the asking price. If this is inline with your agreed price it's hard to get them to take money off.

Sadly mine was but I've got a damp proof survey being carried out in a week to hopefully shave an extra couple of quid of the price.

 

[gregers]

do the same to the house your buying that way it wont actually cost you anything if accepted, .

 

[Northbeach]

Thanks Jeds - yes, we'll go through that route. An electrical report was mentioned, but not that we would have to pay for this report!
Will take a look at the survey notes when we get them.

@Geps - I'll check that too (value on survey).

gregers
do the same to the house your buying that way it wont actually cost you anything if accepted.

Was that for me or Geps?!

We've just had our survey (on the house we are potentially buying) back (online version at least). Looks a little ominous...just started to read and blimey - it's around 40 pages long. Culmination - further investigation required before the property is purchased. Thing is, we really have our heart set on it...and there's nothing else in that particular area (and for many reasons it has to be the same location) that ticks the boxes.
I haven't read it all yet and we know someone in the game who will look it over for us...but my nerves are frayed already. My heart says sod it - anything major then put it back to the vendors (I intend to pull much of it apart anyway/refurb anyway)...I'll post some of the more gruesome points as I come across them.

Thanks folks.

 

[Northbeach]

Our solicitor has now passed on our requests for further information re the allowance for works.

Meanwhile...I read through the survey report on the property we are wanting to purchase. Good god...it's 45 pages long and perhaps much of it is standard for the type of house, but it is extremely thorough (even down to the standard of silicone seal around the bath (as an example).
Given it's a 1930's house we should expect much needing doing. Thankfully the windows were replaced in the last five years and the roof in the last ten. Much of the work requiring attention, we are told, would probably get done for around £1000 - £2000 - so not drastic.

However the main concern is possible subsidence. The mortgage evaluation report marked this as long standing movement and not of major concern. This full building survey thinks differently:

It appears that the gable wall of the house has been affected by past settlement movement which we suspect may be ongoing and the majority of this movement appears to have taken place around the rear left corner of the building and to the left side of the kitchen projection. Taking into account the appearance of the cracks the degree of movement to date is only relatively slight, however, from a single visit and without the possibility of monitoring or excavating to view the foundations to the side of the house and perhaps checking the drains we cannot confirm categorically that there is no risk of future movement to the structure here. Older properties such as this often have shallow footings or foundations which are susceptible to ground movement. We note that your mortgage valuation report states a belief that movement to the property is longstanding in nature but we are unable to agree with that diagnosis. Whilst none of the cracks we noted is severe in magnitude there are far too many cracks present to merely dismiss these without further investigations.

It then suggests referring these cracks to the vendors building insurers who should in turn send out a structural engineer (if one hasn't been out already).
It's not entirely clear if this is long standing, due to drains or foundations...but it's a bit of a worry (the majority of the other issues are what I would expect - re pointing, not particular great conservatory etc.

The other major concern is the slants in the floors - a request to send out a damp proof specialist (to look under the boards at joists etc) is advised.

Hmmm...excitement has been tempered a little now (again, we really want the house - perfect location et al).

Any thoughts?
Cheers.

 

[Static]

Damp proof speciallist are useless, they will walk around with a B&Q damp meter that makes a noise when it touches any surface dry or damp, and then claim the building needs a new chem dpc that will cost you £1500 (even if it already has one).. they will not look under the floor or even get involved in joist problems cos chem dpc makes them a stack of cash..

The floor "slant" may be to do with potential subsidence/cracking so would be better money spent getting a structural report on both issues.. either by ways of a limited survey or full structural survey of the property..

Crack monitoring suggested in the report takes months or years to cover seasonal movement possibilities..

Often local properties might exhibit similar problems.. so look/ask around

You may struggle to insure the property if its had subsidence problems in the past that werent dealt with, call an insurance co for a quote to make sure its insurable.

edit:
You can go down the route of getting vendors insurers out to look at it but, if they find it is as suspected subsidence dont be suprised that your purchase falls through..

 

[Northbeach]

Damp proof speciallist are useless, they will walk around with a B&Q damp meter that makes a noise when it touches any surface dry or damp, and then claim the building needs a new chem dpc that will cost you £1500 (even if it already has one).. they will not look under the floor or even get involved in joist problems cos chem dpc makes them a stack of cash..

The floor "slant" may be to do with potential subsidence/cracking so would be better money spent getting a structural report on both issues.. either by ways of a limited survey or full structural survey of the property..

Crack monitoring suggested in the report takes months or years to cover seasonal movement possibilities..

Often local properties might exhibit similar problems.. so look/ask around

You may struggle to insure the property if its had subsidence problems in the past that werent dealt with, call an insurance co for a quote to make sure its insurable.

edit:
You can go down the route of getting vendors insurers out to look at it but, if they find it is as suspected subsidence dont be suprised that your purchase falls through..

Thanks for that Static - the guy who came round to check our damp/roof portrayed those very same symptoms - like I said before, he glanced up at the roof on his way down the path, made a note then off he went. Claimed roof issues...it's only 7/8 years old!

The survey report does mention getting someone in to make a trap door and take a proper look around - would this not be the damp proof specialist? I'll dig the bit out in the report where it mentions that.

There are probably a few thousand of this type of house in the area (1930's) the rest being Victorian, so I guess it's not unique.

The survey values it the same as the agreed price and our mortgage report states the problem is long standing movement and not of major concern anymore - I guess our surveyor has to be overtly cautious for many reasons. Still, the other issues (aside from the slanting floors - are these massive jobs to fix?) can be done over time for probably a small cost. The fly in the ointment then is this possible subsidence. We have instructed out solicitors to ask the vendor to look at this with their insurers (they must have house insurance...surely?!)
We've had two houses fall through already, and we've spent a bob or two getting this one so far in fees (plus it's exactly what we want and where we want it). Always wanted a bit of a project, but we won't be able to shoulder the cost of major structural work if it requires it.

Hopefully we'll hear from the vendors soon. Surely if it they can't sell the place now, then they never will until they've (if it needs to be done) sorted any possible subsidence issues? They've purchased another property and are keen to move asap...nerve fraying business this!

Many thanks.