Buying house lacking building regs approval?

[^woody^]

Bottom line, is if it's been up for so long, then its not going anywhere now or in the future.

Building contol officers do not go around searching for unauthorised work in people's homes.

Your conveyancer is crap.

If you want the place, buy it. You can try and haggle the price, but it's a sellers market ATM.

 

[JohnD]

building regs

since AD 1189 or 1667 in parts of UK, or 1750 BC elsewhere.

 

[^woody^]

LOL ^^

Of course there was

 

[Elwood_Blues]

Bottom line, is if it's been up for so long, then its not going anywhere now or in the future.

Building contol officers do not go around searching for unauthorised work in people's homes.

Your conveyancer is crap.

If you want the place, buy it. You can try and haggle the price, but it's a sellers market ATM.

I'm currently the tenant living in the property, and I like the place and would rather buy it than move. I don't want to haggle/alter the price (would cause a load of issue with mortgage and legal process I suspect), I just need to be sure I'm not buying a lemon that I won't be able to sell on in the future. It hasn't been advertised on the open market, although I think the price we've agreed is at the top end of what it would achieve on the open market. But that was based on it being properly constructed and classed as 3 bedrooms, not one.

 

[motorbiking]

Bottom line, is if it's been up for so long, then its not going anywhere now or in the future.

Building contol officers do not go around searching for unauthorised work in people's homes.

Your conveyancer is crap.

If you want the place, buy it. You can try and haggle the price, but it's a sellers market ATM.

Can't disagree with that apart from the comment on the market. At this point in time its entirely geographic and from this distance nobody here can say how problematic the faults are likely to be or how much of a bargain you are or are not getting. You have a lever, how strong it is, you wont know until you try use it. If you're not someone comfortable with negotiation (or re-negotiations) put the facts to the seller (including the info from the agent on description) and ask him for a proposal.

Can the agent that advised you on the description restrictions also comment on the impact to the value?

EDIT - it wont cause you a problem with the mortgage. You either put the negotiated saving back in the mortgage or you keep them for renovation.

 

[Elwood_Blues]

Can't disagree with that apart from the comment on the market. At this point in time its entirely geographic and from this distance nobody here can say how problematic the faults are likely to be or how much of a bargain you are or are not getting. You have a lever, how strong it is, you wont know until you try use it. If you're not someone comfortable with negotiation (or re-negotiations) put the facts to the seller (including the info from the agent on description) and ask him for a proposal.

Can the agent that advised you on the description restrictions also comment on the impact to the value?

EDIT - it wont cause you a problem with the mortgage. You either put the negotiated saving back in the mortgage or you keep them for renovation.

Thanks, but are you sure on that? I thought the lender would need to know about a change in price at the very least?

I've spoken to several estate agents about it (some of them valued the property recently to help us agree on the price), they all agreed that it would have some effect on value, the only one that gave a figure said 20k per room reduction.

 

[motorbiking]

My comment was on the basis of of a couple of grand off not £40k, which by the way I don't think you'd get. take it in steps.. First step is to put the evidence to the seller and ask for his proposal. Your position is that the valuation is off based on the facts and you'd have anecdotal information that this could be as much as £XX,.. IF you get some money off, then you tell the lender that you have haggled the price down as a last minute strategy.

 

[Elwood_Blues]

My comment was on the basis of of a couple of grand off not £40k, which by the way I don't think you'd get. take it in steps.. First step is to put the evidence to the seller and ask for his proposal. Your position is that the valuation is off based on the facts and you'd have anecdotal information that this could be as much as £XX,.. IF you get some money off, then you tell the lender that you have haggled the price down as a last minute strategy.

Yeah, I wasn't even thinking of asking for that much off. I haven't thought about an amount at all, just the thought of even asking for as discount at this stage make me feel like a bit of a b*****d, even though there appears to be a valid reason.

 

[chappers]

Due to the ever increasing litigious society we live in many people are being caught out by this sort of thing.
Solicitors have become so over zealous and the questionaires put to vendors are so long now, asking questions that just weren't being asked 10 or even 5 years ago. Vendors are inheriting problems that just weren't there when they bought the properties because those questions just weren't asked previously.
This situation is going to become more stringent in future too.
If I were you I would be seriously considering this purchase not in anyway based upon the soundness of the structure, but the implications of a future sale.
you say that £20k a room is the potential reduction for having to market this property as a1 bed, what's that going to be when you want to come to sell, my opinion is that mortgage lenders are going to become more involved in these sorts of enquiries in future making it harder for people to even purchase these sorts of properties in the future.
A few grand off now isn't going to help you further down the line when you want to sell.

 

[^woody^]

There are always people ready to buy a house that they like. B/regs or not.

The overriding factor is always the condition of the property at same time, not the bit of paper saying that something might have been built to some or other standard 30 years ago

 

[endecotp]

Don't buy it today for more than you could sell it for tomorrow. At least not without thinking very carefully.
Getting agents to tell you how much less it is worth as "two non-habitable storage rooms in loft used by current owner as bedrooms" is your best guide to that.
Yes building regs about e.g. fire and structural strength for loft conversions absolutely existed pre 1985!
While it's true that a building that has not fallen down in the last 30 years probably isn't going to fall down in the next 30, you can't say the same about thr fire safety aspect: just because no-one has yet died because the stairs were full of smoke, doesn't mean that won't happen to you next week.

 

[Elwood_Blues]

While it's true that a building that has not fallen down in the last 30 years probably isn't going to fall down in the next 30, you can't say the same about thr fire safety aspect: just because no-one has yet died because the stairs were full of smoke, doesn't mean that won't happen to you next week.

I've just come to that realisation myself, having not really considered it properly before. We've been using those loft rooms as bedrooms for my young kids since they were born, while we sleep in the first floor bedroom below. It may be less of an issue for adults to consider their escape in a fire situation, but there's no way young kids are going to be able to climb out of the windows by themselves (there's a pretty decent escape route via a flat roof that an adult could manage easily). Never realised the potential risk they've been exposed to until now.

 

[Doggit]

As others have said here, it's a questionable purchase. If the engineer says that it can't be altered to handle the fire regs, and if the floors are sagging, then it's not up to standard, and shouldn't/can't be marketed as 3 bed house when it's only a one bed. And if the landlord won't let you do an invasive check, then that alone should be sufficient warning. When you come to sell the property, then there'll be someone in your position questioning the price etc, and giving you the hassle.

Whilst you're solicitor can't comment on the engineers comments, they should be able to advise you on the legality of the property, and if you're not dealing with one of the partners, then you can ask one of them to take a look over the file to make sure you're being given good advice.

The structural surveyor is only looking to check for any defects, but if he finds any, then you use that to renegotiate the purchase price - did the SS spot the sagging floor, and non conformity to fire regs by any chance. The offer letter to purchase the property, should have been on the basis of subject to survey, as you don't want to pay top price, and then find you've got work to do. You've got a problem on you're hands, as the landlord may possibly drop the price to reflect the need to redo the beam and the joists, but will be reluctant to drop it by 40K. If you don't go through with the purchase - which I don't think you should - then he'll very likely give you notice to quit, so that you don't tell an subsequent purchasers of the problems.

A more detailed meeting with building control may help you find a way through this mess, and determine how legal the place is, which should then help you determine the value of the property in conjunction with an estate agent - remember the one you're dealing with works for the vendor, not you.

Basically, you're between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Diver Fred]

As you are the tenant are you renting as a 'Registered tenant' or 'Assured short term' ? if the former has the vendor set the selling price accordingly - circa 60% of the market value. If the latter then I believe it's market value - but I would suggest that you should negotiate a substancial reduction as the price or walk away.

 

[DaveHerns]

I agree. Don't buy a heap of problems for the future. Sounds like your landlord knows only too well the quality of the workmanship.