I am currently a self-employed telecomms engineer, but want to train as an electrician, in order to work on domestic installations and be self-certified. I have looked at all the NAPIT info, but am a bit wary of the fact I have no previous experience. I am quite happy with the basics and can and have undertaken my own wiring etc, and have worked on telecomms power plant, so I am not a complete dunce. I am just a bit concerned that the course is only 3 days and it seems to me there will be a hell of a lot to it, specially given the fail rates. what I want to know is how can I prepare myself (books etc) beforehand, and most importantly is it actually feasible to pass this if you have no previous background? I do not want to be a 5 day wonder and start out without this exam under my belt. what do you think guys?
C & G 2382 (17th edition wiring regs) teach yourself?
- Thread starter Paul96
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I'm ex telecoms- PABX's, structured and Cat cabling.
Did the DISQ 5 day 'wonder' in 05 and the 3 day 2381 in 08 via NICEIC.
You need to buy the OSG and the 17th book, I'd also suggest flea bay for used copies of the DISQ and 3 day 2381 course books. They will help, but nothing helps more than practical experience combined with the book work.
You suggest you are anti 5 day wonder, but since you haven't suggested the CG 1 day week, 2 years route you will need more than just the 17th cert.
The 17th cert is very valid, but really only proves you can read a book- the exam is open book, mult choice questions and even a numpty such as myself got 93%
Did the DISQ 5 day 'wonder' in 05 and the 3 day 2381 in 08 via NICEIC.
You need to buy the OSG and the 17th book, I'd also suggest flea bay for used copies of the DISQ and 3 day 2381 course books. They will help, but nothing helps more than practical experience combined with the book work.
You suggest you are anti 5 day wonder, but since you haven't suggested the CG 1 day week, 2 years route you will need more than just the 17th cert.
The 17th cert is very valid, but really only proves you can read a book- the exam is open book, mult choice questions and even a numpty such as myself got 93%
Obviously, I am biased (I teach the stuff) but a three-day regs course will do nothing more than scratch the surface. We take five days to deliver the 2382-10 and many students tell us it should be a couple of weeks, but as Chri5 says, this qualification is about content, rather than application.
There is no such thing as a 5-day wonder (although some training providers will sell you short courses covering design & installation) but there are many with very little training out there who consider themselves competent.
You're just up the road from us (A38) so why not give ETS a call on 0121 358 5858 and ask to speak to somebody about it?
There is no such thing as a 5-day wonder (although some training providers will sell you short courses covering design & installation) but there are many with very little training out there who consider themselves competent.
You're just up the road from us (A38) so why not give ETS a call on 0121 358 5858 and ask to speak to somebody about it?
Paul96, I am certain that you will pass the exam if you put good effort into it during the training and in your spare time leading up to the exam.
The real question that you should ask yourself is: "do I have enough experience to perform domestic electrical design, installation, test & inspection on my own"
The answer is probably no. I recommend you do what you are doing, study, take the exam and then try to work with a qualified, experienced, registered domestic electrician for at least a day per/week for six months. You may be able to negotiate a reasonable daily rate.
Two years ago I exited the industrial electrical/electronics field after 32 years and entered the domestic world. It took all my experience to avoid making mistakes and I still made some but had the experience to ask the right questions and put them right before anything bad happened. Also if you are considering doing any periodic inspections then you need the experience and lots of it. Your problem is not the exam, its experience but if you manage that correctly then you will do well.
The real question that you should ask yourself is: "do I have enough experience to perform domestic electrical design, installation, test & inspection on my own"
The answer is probably no. I recommend you do what you are doing, study, take the exam and then try to work with a qualified, experienced, registered domestic electrician for at least a day per/week for six months. You may be able to negotiate a reasonable daily rate.
Two years ago I exited the industrial electrical/electronics field after 32 years and entered the domestic world. It took all my experience to avoid making mistakes and I still made some but had the experience to ask the right questions and put them right before anything bad happened. Also if you are considering doing any periodic inspections then you need the experience and lots of it. Your problem is not the exam, its experience but if you manage that correctly then you will do well.
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Thanks for the replies, particularly dingbat for the offer to ring, which I certainly will. I realise I am lacking in design and practical experience, but I also know that I am a very practical person, well qualified in other fields and no idiot. We are not talking rocket science here if you are prepared to put in the work? I think trying to get a position with a qualified person is a good idea, and i would be willing to do this FOC, and I also realise that the 17th regs is not all there is to it, but it is a start. I just want to give myself as much chance as possible. All I am looking to do initially is simple additions and suchlike domestic work, hopefully with part "P".
Good, spend some time with a registered domestic sparky. Make yourself very familiar with the BS7671 model electrical installation certificate (EIC), minor works electrical certificate (MWEIC) and periodic inspection report forms. Ask if you can do the test & inspection (under supervision) and fill out the forms (the qualified supervisor will need to sign the form)
Get your self a multifuctional tester or separate ELI, IR and RCD tester.
The way to pass the self certification assessments (NAPIT, NICEIC, ALECSA etc) is to really know these forms and related tests in intimate detail.... that plus doing a VERY clean job of the work you put forward for inspection.
One last thing, you are correct when you say its not rocket science but I can tell you that after 32 years experience and quite a few qualifications I still found myself in deep water a few times..... The domestic world can bite you back sometimes so experience/practice is key.
Good luck and I am sure you will do well. If you are ever down south then I could always use a good person for a day or so, now and then and I always pay something if not a fortune
Get your self a multifuctional tester or separate ELI, IR and RCD tester.
The way to pass the self certification assessments (NAPIT, NICEIC, ALECSA etc) is to really know these forms and related tests in intimate detail.... that plus doing a VERY clean job of the work you put forward for inspection.
One last thing, you are correct when you say its not rocket science but I can tell you that after 32 years experience and quite a few qualifications I still found myself in deep water a few times..... The domestic world can bite you back sometimes so experience/practice is key.
Good luck and I am sure you will do well. If you are ever down south then I could always use a good person for a day or so, now and then and I always pay something if not a fortune
One last thing. Make yourself familiar with three phase. Phase rotation, ELI on three phase etc. Even in the domestic world you will come across it quite often. I have just completed a very large residential house which uses all three phases. So you need to make sure you have test equipment with the right spec.
wow - thanks automationman for very helpful and informative comments. I wouldn't mind a chat with you some time, and your offer of having a good person to help you is brilliant. Actually, I work quite a bit in Bristol in my role as a telecomms engineer so I may well be able to take you up on your offer! when I said it is not rocket science i wasn't trying to imply it is not a sometimes complicated job, I know full well that it needs competence and a lot of knowledge and experience. I know only too well that there is no substitute for time-served experience, but we all have to start somewhere!! bye the way does anyone think I am a bit old I am 52 now? (I don't!)
I was 52 when I moved from industrial to domestic... now I'm 54 and still not old enough
Will post my tel number in your messages.
Will post my tel number in your messages.
In terms of theory the NICEIC produce a work book with pretty pictures. They call it the learning guide.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Books_Training_Index/Electricians_Guide_Book/index.html
The NICEIC, in my opinion, produce well written, easy to understand publications. It's all about cutting through the jargon.
Another tip would be to study something relevant to your practical situation rather than reading from cover to cover. Your knowledge will then build as you work and you will find it sinks in.
Going by your posts you don't sound like a numpty so I'm sure you will do well.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Books_Training_Index/Electricians_Guide_Book/index.html
The NICEIC, in my opinion, produce well written, easy to understand publications. It's all about cutting through the jargon.
Another tip would be to study something relevant to your practical situation rather than reading from cover to cover. Your knowledge will then build as you work and you will find it sinks in.
Going by your posts you don't sound like a numpty so I'm sure you will do well.
51 y.o. Hands get sore after a full day of terminating, knees and back play up sometimes. That's a compound affect of 30 odd years of bulk terminating, ladder work, drilling and all the general stuff that goes with 'engineering'
You are never too old, but it helps to have some young bloods when you know there's a few days of furniture moving, floor board lifting and crawling under floors.
I have a couple of able bodied youths for such stuff
After the base learning, you will have to keep pace with new developments. So learn once, then never again is a dead philosophy- but that is good since it adds to the interest.
If you have never worked for home owners, that too is a learning curve since some are odd. Business folk (such as the telecoms work you do) know what they want, and tend to have set some rigid specific requirements.
A lot of domestic clients don't have much of a clue and they can't handle being blinded by regs and never understand why post the new flooring and final decoration our work becomes 'difficult'.
Finance might be new to you. Charging the correct daily rate or job price, getting stage payments, avoiding debates on final cost and generally handling domestic customers isn't easy.
Consider that you are going in breaking up floors, drilling holes, chopping boxes in the biggest purchase most people ever make. They are anxious and often warier due to previous problems with contractors in home.
You soon learn who not to trust- Unfortunately in London I get all customers to sign on the plans I draw up. Which creates a firm and agreed job, when it changes I expect a simple note- a variation order to protect me against denial later.
Overseas people, landlords, builders and the groups that expect bartering (due to culture) need to be handled professionally. Never take verbal instructions, because they always forget !
You are never too old, but it helps to have some young bloods when you know there's a few days of furniture moving, floor board lifting and crawling under floors.
I have a couple of able bodied youths for such stuff
After the base learning, you will have to keep pace with new developments. So learn once, then never again is a dead philosophy- but that is good since it adds to the interest.
If you have never worked for home owners, that too is a learning curve since some are odd. Business folk (such as the telecoms work you do) know what they want, and tend to have set some rigid specific requirements.
A lot of domestic clients don't have much of a clue and they can't handle being blinded by regs and never understand why post the new flooring and final decoration our work becomes 'difficult'.
Finance might be new to you. Charging the correct daily rate or job price, getting stage payments, avoiding debates on final cost and generally handling domestic customers isn't easy.
Consider that you are going in breaking up floors, drilling holes, chopping boxes in the biggest purchase most people ever make. They are anxious and often warier due to previous problems with contractors in home.
You soon learn who not to trust- Unfortunately in London I get all customers to sign on the plans I draw up. Which creates a firm and agreed job, when it changes I expect a simple note- a variation order to protect me against denial later.
Overseas people, landlords, builders and the groups that expect bartering (due to culture) need to be handled professionally. Never take verbal instructions, because they always forget !
I'm wondering if you are getting mixed up?
The exam for the C&G 2382-10 is a 60 question multiple choice one done on a computer. You are allowed a copy of the regs, on site guide and iirc a union guide book (which isn't really needed).
It is basically an exam in understanding the layout and how to use BS7671:2008 to find information.
The C&G2391 (Inspection, testing and certification) on the other hand isn't an easy exam to pass.
The exam for the C&G 2382-10 is a 60 question multiple choice one done on a computer. You are allowed a copy of the regs, on site guide and iirc a union guide book (which isn't really needed).
It is basically an exam in understanding the layout and how to use BS7671:2008 to find information.
The C&G2391 (Inspection, testing and certification) on the other hand isn't an easy exam to pass.
thanks for that, fantastic help....
Thanks guys some more useful information I take on board all that Chri5 says, my work in telecomms isn't quite as straightforward as you may think but I can see exactly where you are coming from, and you are right, the general public can be very odd, especially when you are invading their space so to speak. I guess being 52 helps a bit you tend to become a bit more savvi (or is it cynical?) as you get a few miles on the clock. Also spark123, I might well be getting mixed up, it does seem to be a bit of a minefield to be honest? I just can't see that it would be as simple as enrolling on courses and being able to pass them in weeks, that is why I initially wanted guidance on any preliminary work I could do on my own as regards getting clued up on the regulations etc. I already have a good understanding of electricity as I did it as part of my telecomms training (years ago) and consider myself a pretty practical person anyway.
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