camray 5 faulty - black smoke

[pmk11]

hi
First off - great site and I'm after some of the good advice out there.
Bit of a story so here goes. I have a Camray 5 oil fired boiler fitted with Riello burner (RDB 501t1k). Fitted 2005.
Started discharging black smoke from the flue couple of weeks ago. Called for oilman to service it but no go until new year. Boiler stopped working week later. Called oilman to come and look at it next day and when he turned up and opened up boiler and found it full of soot. cleaned it out and replaced nozzle. When finished boiler would not start. Pump running but no ignition. On inspection nozzle found to be dry. Bled oil line and checked oil getting to pump ok. tigerloop looked fine, half full and clear.
Guy came back next day and replaced photocell. Got goining but kept locking out. Came back next day and said found loose connection in control box and got boiler going. Said tests ok.
Next day I noticed black smoke from flue again and later on boiler went to lock out. I cleaned photocell and reset ok. Next day locked out and would not reset. Opened up boiler myself and full of soot again. Burner blast tube burnt and fractured.
Called oilman who suggest new burner.
Gone for a second opinion but any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Agile]

You seem to have serious problems with your boiler.

I cannot guess at what might have happened. Perhaps the original cause was not identified or it was not fully cleaned? The advice that I would always give is to turn off the boiler immediately black smoke is seen.

Of course in cold weather people are reluctant to do that but continuing to use it is going to make it very badly sootted up and take longer to clean.

Its so much easier to just replace the burner but of course much more expensive! Some are more willing to repair than others.

Tony

 

[AlanE]

EVERY individual working part is available for the Riello burner.

The black smoke is a by-product of rich running and can be repaired. The boiler needs cleaning, maybe nozzle replacing but then the oil pressure needs to be checked and adjusted. Finally combustion needs checking with a Flue Gas analyser.

The original post says nothing that would inspire confidence in the original 'oilman'!! He gives the impression of total ignorance of how oil boilers work and how to repair them!

Contact your oil supplier and ask them if they can recommend an engineer local to you. Years ago most had their own repair/servicing teams. Don't think many do these days but yours may have a list of recommended ones.

And yes I used to repair oil boilers, prior to retirement, and I cannot recall ever recommending a replacement burner to cure black smoke.

 

[oilman]

Just to avoid confusion, it was not me the OP called.

Changing the photocell may allow it to run until that photocell gets sooted up. AlanE is correct in that there is no need to replace this burner with a new one. Anyone suggesting this should be shown the door.

A common cause of sooting is a blocked oil filter. The filter(s) should be cleaned or replaced, and the motor capacitor should be checked to be the correct value and definitely not less than 2uF. the motor coupling may be worn and there is a possibility the motor bearings are stiff or the pump gets stiff as it warms up.

Motor bearings can be replaced, you do not need a new motor if it's bearings. The pump will need replacing if it's stiff, but it's the last thing on the list, not the first.

 

[pmk11]

Thanks all for your advice.

Sorry Oilman - was definetly not you.

Original guy was young but seemed to know his stuff although not familiar with Camray. I've no idea if the oil filter was checked but I will check it myself if it ever stops blowing a hoolie.

Originally tried oil delivery co. and could not get anyone until early Jan. Have now gone back to them for a second opinion, hopefully stopping by this weekend. Spoke with engineer and he mentioned pump stiffening, possibly from water in oil over time?

 

[oilman]

Seems like he's starting with the expensive option then.

 

[Boilerman2]

I cannot see how it is possible for ANY experienced oil boiler engineer not to be familiar with the CAMRAY 5 - the Camray series was in it's day the No1 best selling boiler in the UK! - it's like a motor mechanic who has never heard of a Ford Focus!!

get a decent engineer in ( ask neighbours for a good recommendation)

 

[pmk11]

thanks
Could be but I'll go over your options with him when he checks it out and I've had a look at the filter. Anything else a likely culprit?

 

[holty]

how is the flue arrangement. e.g balanced flue, or conventional were it goes into a chimney. make sure an analyzer and gauges are used. or there's no point in doing anything. both will give a good pointer to were a problem will be. i mentioned conventional flue, actually any flue should be checked as over decades of use. they can, like any chimney need cleaning. had quite a few this year that needed a sweep, to be able to set the boiler up properly.

 

[oilman]

thanks
Could be but I'll go over your options with him when he checks it out and I've had a look at the filter. Anything else a likely culprit?

Best to leave him to get on with it if you feel comfortable with him. If not, get someone else, as few will take kindly to being questioned on the basis of an internet forum.

 

[pmk11]

Oilman - point taken. Checked filter and nothing - very clean.

Stuck my hand up flue (vertical balance flue) and heavily sooted on
the inside. I think I'll leave it for the engineer, I've nothing suitable to clean it with and don't want to cause any damage.

Once again many thanks all.

 

[oilman]

If its a long flue you will probably use a chimney sweep as boiler guys don't usually have long brushes. Alternatively buy some brushes so they are on site when he arrives.

 

[Agile]

So would a typical engineer have suitable brushes to deal with a 1.2 m tall concentric flue?

 

[oilman]

I don't class 1.2m (4ft) as "tall". I don't know about others but my brushes would cope with that.

 

[pmk11]

thanks guys. 10ft flue. Had a chat with neighbour and has brushes and poles so will have a go at cleaning tomorrow. Anything to look out for?