Camray Quartet broken

[raymie]

My boiler is not working, after one repairman who swore blind it was the central heating pump (yes really) and one who would not fix it but now only did new installs (at £3000) I have run out of people willing to come to my rural location and am looking at the unit myself.

The issue is with the fan, it appears to be binding and stopping the heating from starting, if I free it up then I can sometimes get the heating kicking in for a while before it locks out again.

What I can't seem to work out is how to actually remove the fan blade bit from the motor spindle. I have noted that there is a grub screw which I have removed but I still can't seem to pull the fan free and don't want to force it without checking first.

Basically I want to see what is behind it since I suspect that some sort of bearing has failed.

Anyone any hints on removing the blade part?

In case it matters the unit is for a 110/150 sized boiler.

Any hints on part numbers and where is best to order new parts from would also be appreciated.

 

[oilhead]

Try replacing the motor capacitor. The fan will not be sticking, but either the motor is not being 'started' ( by the capacitor) or the oil pump on the burner is causing the jam. A riello capacitor is easy to fit, an oil pump is not a diy job

 

[Terrywookfit]

Spray plenty of Wd 40 around it.

Remove oil pump and find a flat bladed tool that will fit into slots on motor shaft.
The fan can then be twisted and tapped (On the hub) to loosen it.

Or you can buy a puller for 40 odd quid.

2 bearings are about a tenner.

 

[raymie]

I finally did get the impellor off but the motor still seems to be sticking.

Without the impellor on the motor starts fine it seems, with it on it seems to stick (moved fractionally, more like a judder stops and then the unit will lock out a little later).

I originally did try replacing the capacitor with a spare I keep but that did not help and so to eliminate changes I have added back in the old one.

I should mention that the old impellor is a bit corroded, but then again it does date from 1998 so that is probably not a surprise.

I was going to try with a new one but I have no idea of what part I need or indeed what burner it is that would be fitted on a 110/150 other than it is a reillo one.

It is also probably relevant that before the unit failed it was making some noises for a while, one was a whine and then there was a noise a bit like something was scraping against something else, hence my feeling it is the fan impeller or the motor (and I am now tending away from the motor).

Anyone any idea on part numbers for the impeller, I know that the motor is a 171T but I could not see a parts stamp on the impellor.

 

[Terrywookfit]

Try a search for Riello motor bearings.

Have you also checked that the oil pump has no tight spots or leaking shaft seal?

 

[raymie]

Thanks for the reply

I don't really see it being an oil pump issue, either the fan fails to turn (and it is not as free to turn by hand as it is other times) or the fan turns and the burner then ignites with no issue whatsoever a few seconds later (as normal).

Unless there is some relationship between the oil pump and the fan turning that I am not aware of then the issues do seem to be on the impellor side of the assembly.

Bearings however would I guess match the whine noise but without the impellor in place I can't run the motor to see if that noise is totally away (and it was not always present anyway).

I'm obviously wanting to try everything other than the oil pump given the comments about that not being a DIY job and yet no local company being willing to do a repair any more.

 

[Burnerman]

I don't know if I'm missing something here, but presumably you are running the motor on the bench.....
If its stiff to turn by hand then either there is a tight bearing, but if one bearing is actually really goosed then the rotor inside the motor may be contacting the field windings.....they have to revolve in very close proximity.
I think the bearings will be 6202ZZ ones.
Its usually the capacitor that gives up first, but not always!
John

 

[raymie]

The motor is only stiff on some occassions and frees up fairly easily but this is only the case when the whole assembly minus the cover is installed.

Without the impellor I have not yet seen the motor stick but with and without the cover I have seen the motor stick when the impellor is fitted

I am aware that this type of testing is probably not advised but I can see the motor turn and switch off the power before the burner kicks up (when the cover is not fitted).

 

[Burnerman]

For sure I don't know which burner the system has and I don't have any literature with me here, but it does sound like a grumpy oil pump.
I don't think you'll have any problems replacing it, but the do have to be set up with a pressure gauge and a flue gas analyser when the job is done.
With the pump on the bench it should revolve smoothly without any sticky places. You can turn pump spindles with your fingers, but you cant actually spin them.
John

 

[raymie]

Anyone have any idea on how I can find out what type of burner I have,

It is a reillio but I can't find any markings that would indicate a model number that I can relate to

What is legible on part of it is G7Q, type 459T55 and there is a code 01407206364

On the housing for the fan there is a stamped number 3253.

I'm having an issue ordering a new impellor (ie cheapest thing to replace first) since there seems to be several possible ones depending on the actual burner that the camray quartet 110/150 around 1998 used

 

[raymie]

The kind man from Riello has emailed me a parts list and manual for the boiler, it seems it is a G7Q Reill0 40.

Certainly the parts diagram seems to match the bits of the boiler that are visible.

The only real difference is that I don't have the metal cover, but thnking about that I may have seen something like it in the barn, must go and have a look at some stage.

 

[Burnerman]

I think the Riello part number is 3005708 - if that cross references with anything. If you look at www.heating-parts.co.uk their replacement part number is 262242.
Is the fan damaged in any way.....unless its been put out of balance by mishandling, they are fairly robust.
Are you doing your investigations through the air door, or have you got that cover off?
John

 

[raymie]

I am removing the cast cover head time to get to the fan.

Tonight I replaced the old one while waiting for a new one to arrive (the part number actually ends in 88 not 08)

After hitting the fan a bit to make sure it is true (I bent it a little trying to remove it) the heating is firing up fine but is a bit noisy.

Been on for around 40 minutes now, went out once but that was down to the temperature being reached, it's kicked back in again itself now.

However chances are it will lock out next time or work until the hour is up (boost mode) and then lockout next time I try and start it up.

BUt at least I will get the radiators warm for a bit which helps.

 

[Burnerman]

....in which case, we are back to the motor / capacitor issue I feel......
Great if the thing locks out when you are watching it, but that rarely happens!
John

 

[oilhead]

The G7Q does not have ametal cover. The boiler is room sealed by virtue of the case seals.
A tight oil pump will stall the motor because it sits into a recess in the back of the motor shaft. If you have bent the fan then it will be advisable to replace it as if it is out of balance, then it will be noisy, probably catch the casing and put a strain on the bearings of the motor.
If you take the pump out of the back of the motor, you will probably find that fuel has been leaking out of the shaft seal, into the back bearing of the motor. This will have become worn, because it should be a dry bearing.
If replacing all the parts is time consuming and expensive, then a complete replacement burner could be fitted, but that will need to be commissioned by a competent person with the equipment to do the job.
You have already been told where the problem probably is by several people on this forum, but have chosen to ignore them. It is like blaming the wheels on your car for not turning when you have run out of fuel.