I install too! The 600mm figure applies to both natural draught and fanned flue. The current edition (2002) of ADJ does not appear to make any distinction between condensing and non-condensing boilers. Perhaps you can provide a link to the "draft" regulations that you refer to, Tony.
Can a Plumber please tell me the truth
- Thread starter Beckmeister General
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Thats the problem!
BR and EHOs have rapidly realised that directing pluming over your boundary is just not on.
Although nothing official is published they apparently work to a distance of 2500 mm ( or 2300 mm ).
I am surprised you were not aware of that. Certainly John knows that!
Tony
Most the boiler instructions I have seen state that the flue must not terminate where its effluents may cause damage or nuisance.
Words to that effect anyway.
I found
The other relevant stuff is there on page 29
Having read that I would say it is not acceptable to have a regular flue in this instance. But thats just my judgement and I ain't doing the job.
Words to that effect anyway.
I found
HERE
The other relevant stuff is there on page 29
Having read that I would say it is not acceptable to have a regular flue in this instance. But thats just my judgement and I ain't doing the job.
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Clearly this issue is less than black and white. On the baxi website it clearly staes 600mm but on the Ariston Genus HE book (which I'M having )states 2100mm). I think I'll have a plume kit fitted to take it to the end of the house and have it directed at 45 degrees. All the other plumbers I talk to are hesitaint to go yup througth the roof because of H & S reasons
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HA HA HA
And you do what Tony?
Extracted from that link which I think is the documentation which is used for the Energy Efficency training which all CORGI boiler installers have to do is:-
"""Refer to the condensing boiler exceptions procedure before the boiler/flue
terminal position is decided. In any event particular care is required where
it is intended to fit a flue terminal which will be positioned less than 2.5m
from a facing wall, boundary fence or neighbouring property.Where the
plume from a terminal may cause a nuisance, consider an extended vertical or horizontal flue or moving the boiler to an alternative position which may
provide a more acceptable terminal position."""
Well I am not the only one who knows about the 2.5 m distance from the boundary.
Like so many of the situations which RGIs have to work to which are not laid down by statute, this is one where to plume over the neighbours boundary is likely to get you into expensive difficulties.
Tony Glazier
"""Refer to the condensing boiler exceptions procedure before the boiler/flue
terminal position is decided. In any event particular care is required where
it is intended to fit a flue terminal which will be positioned less than 2.5m
from a facing wall, boundary fence or neighbouring property.Where the
plume from a terminal may cause a nuisance, consider an extended vertical or horizontal flue or moving the boiler to an alternative position which may
provide a more acceptable terminal position."""
Well I am not the only one who knows about the 2.5 m distance from the boundary.
Like so many of the situations which RGIs have to work to which are not laid down by statute, this is one where to plume over the neighbours boundary is likely to get you into expensive difficulties.
Tony Glazier
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oooh. Well up on the regs. Thought you were a repairman?
yOURE BICKERING AINT HELPING KIDS THE GUY IS TURNNG UP TOMORROW TO INSTALL. sorry about the capitals
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Sorry. We could tell you the truth.
But then we would have to kill you.
Sorry,
CORGI
But then we would have to kill you.
Sorry,
CORGI
Step away from legislation for a moment and try the common sense approach.
You were proposing a flue in a position that would send moist air onto your neighbours wall. The products of combustion would then rise up and enter his bathroom window.
The damp patch of acidic water will attack the mortar in his brickwork, then the water that has soaked into his bricks will freeze in the winter causing layers of brick to flake off as the ice expands.
Any timber in this area will also be prone to rot.
When it is cold and the dewpoint is low in the winter months, the particles of moisture will condense over the alleyway and fall to the floor where it occasionally will freeze leaving a dangerous patch of ice.
Some of the above will take time to evolve into a problem but whenever it does happen you can guarantee you neighbour will be knocking on your door with a claim for tort.
Your choices:-
1 Move the boiler
2 Extend or re-route the flue
3 Go for an exception *if possible* and fit a non condenser
4 Best way is to go vertical even though you may have to pay extra for access equipment and/or attendance by a roofer.
From what you said I think you will stick with #2 .... Thats allowed... if the manufacturer says so.
Personally I would go for #4 It will be the best job. Remember you will have to live with it for a long time.
You were proposing a flue in a position that would send moist air onto your neighbours wall. The products of combustion would then rise up and enter his bathroom window.
The damp patch of acidic water will attack the mortar in his brickwork, then the water that has soaked into his bricks will freeze in the winter causing layers of brick to flake off as the ice expands.
Any timber in this area will also be prone to rot.
When it is cold and the dewpoint is low in the winter months, the particles of moisture will condense over the alleyway and fall to the floor where it occasionally will freeze leaving a dangerous patch of ice.
Some of the above will take time to evolve into a problem but whenever it does happen you can guarantee you neighbour will be knocking on your door with a claim for tort.
Your choices:-
1 Move the boiler
2 Extend or re-route the flue
3 Go for an exception *if possible* and fit a non condenser
4 Best way is to go vertical even though you may have to pay extra for access equipment and/or attendance by a roofer.
From what you said I think you will stick with #2 .... Thats allowed... if the manufacturer says so.
Personally I would go for #4 It will be the best job. Remember you will have to live with it for a long time.
Interesting to note that the EST don't appear to understand the physics involved. Water vapour is invisible. The visible component of the products of combustion is liquid water, but in the form of tiny droplets that remain suspended in the air. Water vapour is produced by non-condensing boilers and is not visible, except when it condenses (and ceases to be vapour) in very cold weather.Energy Saving Trust said:
I think that's a bit harsh - I'm sure anyone understands enough about the physics when they can be bothered to think about it, but the EST statement is just lazy thinking and writing.chrishutt said:
For example, it's commonplace to think of the stuff coming off the surface of something hot water as 'steam', hence the expression 'steaming turd' (by the way, where is Bamber?). This doesn't mean that people don't know what steam is, it's just that 'a cloud of condensed water vapour combined with air' is such a mouthful to have to say.
I thought a correct term is an aerosol - that is small solid particles or droplets of liquid suspended in air, as in fog or smoke, although the term does conjure images of spotty youths spraying graffiti over anything that stands still for long enough.
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