Can i insulate over halolite downlight insulation guards?

[DCM1]

Hi all, I have read bits an peices on this forum on the topic of insulating around downlights but i have a few specific questions and would appreciate some help/guidence.

I am currently in the process of adding extra insulation and loft boaring to my loft. The previous owner of my house has had four halogen downlights installed in the bathroom and i am a little unsure as to how safe it is to insulate over/around them.

I have purchased and installed halotlite downlight insulation guards (220mm) around each light fitting and i want to know if i can safley insluate around and on top of the insulations guards and then board over them with loft panels?

Thanks for taking the time to read through

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What do the instructions say?

Isn't the whole purpose of items like that to allow insulation to be kept away from the light?

 

[DCM1]

Hi yes thats what i'm hoping that i can simply go over the top of the insulation guard with the insulation and then be able to board over it.

I just want to make sure that by doing this (i.e. boarding over with conti boards as well as laying insulation over them) I will not be creating a situaton for excessive heat build up and a potential fire risk.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Here's a link to the product description
http://www.screwfix.com/p/halolite-downlight-insulation-guard-220mm/97932

If you read it, the words say

"Protects downlight from being covered with insulation and prevents overheating of downlights. Suitable for installation between common joist spacings"

If you want clarification about boarding, you should ask the maker.

 

[spiidey]

We're about to do the same (i.e. purchase this type of guard for housing downlighters).

I have the same question - can the insulation be put tight around all sides of the guard, and also over the top of the guard, without any issue of excessive heat build up?

 

[Taylortwocities]

This link http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Fire_Cover_Downlight/index.html
shows types of insulation/downlight devices. Each has a specification and other details that should allow you to determine how they work and how they are installed.

 

[spiidey]

We have the following type of downlights (see pic at bottom of post).

Do these downlights have a transformer attached (is that the black plastic box)?

We were going to purchase the following product:-

http://www.downlights.co.uk/accessories/loft-caps.html
http://www.tenmat.com/pdf/LoftCoverAirTightness_DataSheetAward.pdf

but the instructions for this state (Step 3 on the 2nd page of the pdf) that if the downlight has a transformer, that we cannot house the transformer within the cap i.e. we would need an electrician to recable the transformer so it could sit outwith the cap as shown in Step 3.

Do all downlights have a transformer attached? If this is the case, can we use the following product, with the downlight AND the transformer housed inside the guard, and then have insulation tight to all 4 sides of the guard, and tight across the top of the guard, without any overheating issue?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/halolite-...-_-58258#product_additional_details_container

 

[Taylortwocities]

Your downlights are 230v and do not have a transformer.

The black box is just a termination box for the cables (which have not been very well done, by the way.)
The cable sheath should be fully enclosed within the termination box.
You should not be able to see the brown and blue inner cores. It doesnt look like the box is big enough for two cables, so the installer should really have used a pukka junction box.

 

[spiidey]

Your downlights are 230v and do not have a transformer.

The black box is just a termination box for the cables (which have not been very well done, by the way.)
The cable sheath should be fully enclosed within the termination box.
You should not be able to see the brown and blue inner cores. It doesnt look like the box is big enough for two cables, so the installer should really have used a pukka junction box.

Thanks. All 5 down lighters in the loft are the same. Is it worth getting an electrician to fix this (ie get the cable sheath fully within the black box ie so the brown and blue cables aren't shoeing)? IF so, how much (roughly) would that cost?

On the basis that there is no transformer, is the loft cap (the first link in my previous post) then ok to house the downlight? Including the black box as well?

 

[RF Lighting]

Your earth wires have been cut off at the lights which is not good. Assuming it's just the light terminations which need redoing properly, should only take a couple of hours.

While you're doing bits with your lights, it would be a great idea to replace the bulbs with led bulbs. They run much cooler, and save you a fortune in electric.

 

[spiidey]

Your earth wires have been cut off at the lights which is not good. Assuming it's just the light terminations which need redoing properly, should only take a couple of hours.

While you're doing bits with your lights, it would be a great idea to replace the bulbs with led bulbs. They run much cooler, and save you a fortune in electric.

Thanks. Will arrange for an electrician to pop out and carry out the works. What exactly am I asking the electrician to do?

In terms of the LED bulbs, I agree that I should replace the existing halogen bulb with an LED bulb. Is this as simple as taking the halogen bulb out and replacing with an LED bulb (if so, what type), or does the light fitting need modified so it can take an LED bulb?

 

[RF Lighting]

You need to ask him to terminate the lights properly ensuring the is continuous to every light. It will involve either installing a small joint box at each light to properly terminate the existing grey twin and earth cables with a short link of two core cable to the existing connector or replacing the connector with a three terminal variety.

As long as you get GU10 230V LEDs it's literally just a case of swapping the lamps over.

I've found 6W megaman warm white LED lamps to be a good replacement for 50W halogen, but I normally fit the 7W lamps as they are brighter and produce a really good light.

 

[spiidey]

Thanks again.

We're considering actually replacing the light fittings as well seeing as we're insulating above and therefore doing it all in one would seem to make sense.

1. With that in mind, is it actually worth replacing the light fitting with the fire proof fittings, or should we just go for the bog standard fitting? The loft cap we're using is intumescent therefore not sure if we actually need fire proof light fittings.

2. Also, we were thinking of getting dimmable fittings for one of the bathrooms. Do all dimmable fittings come with a transformer, or is it possible to get a fitting without a transformer (suspect the former but thought I would ask)?

3. Also, do LED bulbs work with dimmers?

4. And does the dimmed light look any good?

5. Finally, if we did go for the dimmable fittings, we would need a dimmable switch too. Our current light switch for our bathroom is a dual switch, one controlling the lights and one the extractor fan. Is it possible to get a combined dimmer / extractor fan dual switch?

 

[spiidey]

Anyone able to help with this?

 

[RF Lighting]

You don't need fire rated fittings.

Use standard GU10 fittings. We use 7W megaman dimmerable lamps.

They seem ok with most dimmers, but it's a bit trial and error. The light is great from them.

You can build a switch out of grid parts or get a double dimmer and replace a dimmer module with a switch module.