Downlight Spotlight and Loft Insulation

[TheLight]

I've put some insulation between my rafters in the loft and I reached the Downlights and their wires, etc and I read I shouldn't put insulation on them although the insulation material is not flammable and also the energy saving bulbs don't generate much heat (9w bulbs)?

Please see the image attached. Please ignore the copper pipe (it's a cold pipe for the boiler in the loft)

So I should use a cap/hood/box something to separate the insulation from the downlights and those wires I've understood.

Should I put only the downlight within this box or also the other wires and the transmitter also?

I researched from google: https://www.downlightsdirect.co.uk/fire-hoods-loft-caps.html#isPage=1

and I have 2 main options I've understood:

1)
Downlight Insulation Guard for £8.99 from ScrewFix: http://www.screwfix.com/p/halolite-downlight-insulation-guard-220mm/97932

This only separates the downlight from the insulation but doesn't provide any thermal/moisture protection so the hot air will scape from this.

2)
Loft Cap for £10.80 each: http://www.allaboutelectrics.co.uk/aico-thermal-loft-cap.html

This also separates them but in addition it works like a Vapour and thermal insulation seal. I'm not sure it's necessarily a good thing since this has the downside that inside this cap gets hot and I suspect it can overheat/damage the wires/transmitter within.


3)
Third option is possibly this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjV_D9sgxNw

Just using a Heat Defuser and putting the insulation material on top of it.
So, which one?

Thanks,

Untitled

• TheLight
• 4 Jan 2015
• 1

 

[RF Lighting]

That downlighter is not low energy. It is halogen and will heat up to 200°C. The fitting is too close to the joist and is a real fire risk, especially if you cover it in insulation.

You need to get the fitting moved along with any others in a similar position.

 

[eveares]

Either keep the insulation a substantial distance away from the down lights, or get a hood/cover.

See here for hoods and covers: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Fire_Cover_Downlight/index.html

Also you need to rewire the T&E connected to the transformer if it is currently just connector strips taped together; it should be done in either a junction box or a suitable enclosure with connector strips or wago connectors inside.

 

[flameport]

Third option is possibly this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjV_D9sgxNw

Just using a Heat Defuser and putting the insulation material on top of it.
So, which one?

The 'solutions' in that video are either leaving a massive hole in the insulation or fitting a metal collar directly around the light which then shoves the insulation up, leaving a massive gap in it.
Neither are suitable, as leaving big holes in the insulation defeats the point of having it.

The other options are fine, or make your own supports from suitable material such as plasterboard etc.
The point of them is to leave a suitable air gap above the light to allow heat to dissipate, but at the same time allow insulation to be placed above.

Fire hoods are totally unrelated devices designed to expand and seal the downlight hole in the event of a fire. They are never required, and they are not suitable for preventing heat buildup or maintaining a suitable space above a downlight.

 

[TheLight]

The other options are fine, or make your own supports from suitable material such as plasterboard etc.
The point of them is to leave a suitable air gap above the light to allow heat to dissipate, but at the same time allow insulation to be placed above.

Thanks, this sounds like a reasonable approach. I'm assuming the transmitter and the connectors should all go into this box as well as the Downlighter? or doesn't it matter?

 

[winston1]

It is not a transmitter. It is a power supply, but yes it should go in the box as well as it generates heat.

 

[RF Lighting]

Are you going to just ignore the real fire risk these wrongly installed lights are posing?

 

[TheLight]

That downlighter is not low energy. It is halogen and will heat up to 200°C. The fitting is too close to the joist and is a real fire risk, especially if you cover it in insulation.

You need to get the fitting moved along with any others in a similar position.

200C? really?! that's super hot! the bulb is low energy bulb so I didn't expect it to get hot much but I'll try it again and see whether I can touch after being left on for 20m.

Thanks,

It's been there like this when we bought the house 3 years ago.

 

[TheLight]

Either keep the insulation a substantial distance away from the down lights, or get a hood/cover.

See here for hoods and covers: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Fire_Cover_Downlight/index.html

Also you need to rewire the T&E connected to the transformer if it is currently just connector strips taped together; it should be done in either a junction box or a suitable enclosure with connector strips or wago connectors inside.

That seems to be a bigger job than I thought! I'd need an electrician for that.

 

[RF Lighting]

That downlighter is not low energy. It is halogen and will heat up to 200°C. The fitting is too close to the joist and is a real fire risk, especially if you cover it in insulation.

You need to get the fitting moved along with any others in a similar position.

200C? really?! that's super hot! the bulb is low energy bulb so I didn't expect it to get hot much but I'll try it again and see whether I can touch after being left on for 20m.

Thanks,

It's been there like this when we bought the house 3 years ago.

The one in the picture certainly is not a low energy lamp!

Did you mean low voltage?

Here's a 12V halogen lamp at my house

 

[flameport]

the bulb is low energy bulb so I didn't expect it to get hot much

It's a lower voltage - 12 volts rather than 240.
However it is not 'low energy', it uses the same energy as a 240V equivalent. Probably 50 watts.

Low energy types look like this:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p47566
or possibly this: http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p16948

 

[TheLight]

The one in the picture certainly is not a low energy lamp!

It's MR16 LED Bulb with 60 SMD which is equivalent of a 50W normal but consumes only 5.5W and the working voltage is 12V. 240V is the input and 12V is the output of the Transformer.

You can find it here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-10X-4-6...28?pt=UK_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item58aec5c0fc

DISCLAIMER: the "quality" of the light for these LED bulbs doesn't feel as good as the normal bulbs at all.

But regardless I don't know how hot they get? googling..

 

[RF Lighting]

You've done well there then as your transformer needs a minimum load of 20W to operate!

 

[EFLImpudence]

They do call lower wattage lamps 'energy saving'.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p98350

They do use less energy than ones which use more.

 

[TheLight]

They do call lower wattage lamps 'energy saving'.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p98350

They do use less energy than ones which use more.

They are called LED light bulbs. They consume much less than the Energy Saving bulbs. The quality of the light is a bit rubbish to be honest so I usually get the 6W (equivalent to 50w) or 9w (equivalent to 90w) ones but still not as good.