Can I withhold some payment if no retention in contract?

[spursfan323]

My contractor has not finished the job of renovating my house ... plenty of o/s points still to take care of.

He has been very evasive at the best of times.. charges a lot, does poor work, hopes no-one complains, when I do then he insists it is fine, eventually if I am very lucky begrudgingly brings someone in to make good.. Usually relies on me to point out his mistakes, etc etc.

When I recently broached the idea of withholding payment (5% of the entire house works - approx £90k) for a couple of weeks, to inspect that house has all be done up to a suitable standard, he went wild. Said he doesn't think it's ethical because we never agreed on a retention.

However, we never actually sat down and signed any sort of contract. He did email me a list of works to be done under the title 'Contract'..but I didn't sign it, and it wasn't' in the form or layout of a contract.

My question now is - am I legally and/or ethically entitled to insist on a retention, even though we never agreed on one from the start, seeing as there was never a contract per se? (and seeing as he has proved himself to be a lazy overpriced scoundrel)

Any advice gratefully accepted.

 

[joinerjohn]

As you have not signed any contract and have been pointing out errors/poor workmanship etc, I think your quite entitled to retain a percentage of the payment until your completely satisfied. Why not make an appointment with the CAB ? they can advise you .

 

[IJWS15]

Why mention a retention, tell him you will pay him when he has FINISHED it to your (reasonable) satisfaction! After all unless you agreed something different that is when he should expect to get paid.

Check it as he goes along, and now, so you are happy with everything when he does finish and you can pay him quickly.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If your not happy with the work, hold the money until you are.
No contract has been signed by either party, so the legal implication are about zero.
The man is obviously concerned about the quality of his work, otherwise there should not be a problem, providing you were not going to hold the money for a long period and be unfair with your appraisal of his work.

 

[spursfan323]

thanks for all the reassurance, guys.

his argument has been that he has completed several areas of the job some time ago and those should have been paid for already.

i argued that the job as a whole is not finished. if i'd pay him for each job done that wouldn't leave anything worthwhile to motivate him to finish!

 

[jeds]

IJWS15 is right. I would not mention 'retention' - it has a specific meaning in standard form builiding contracts and will confuse the issue.

The contract you are in is one of paying as you go. Since the work has not been carried out yet (or not completed satisfactorily) then you are under no obligation to pay until it is completed.

Once again, a retention is a very specific and different thing.

My advice is give the builder a list of things that need to be completed. Tell him that you will pay when they are completed satisfactorily. Don't hold an excessive amount. If it comes to a proper row later it will not look good for you if the amount you hold is not commensurate with the outstanding work.

In fact I would advise you get somebody to help you with the list and the negotiation - i.e. a surveyor. But that will cost you a fee and since you thought it wise to to embark on a 90k contract with no professional input I don't suppose you'll start now.

 

[JohnD]

have you paid for that proportion of the work that has been properly completed?

 

[spursfan323]

In fact I would advise you get somebody to help you with the list and the negotiation - i.e. a surveyor. But that will cost you a fee and since you thought it wise to to embark on a 90k contract with no professional input I don't suppose you'll start now.

I had no idea the costs would spiral as high as they did.. and I didnt think I could afford a surveyor's fees at 10%...When i mentioned getting one in, at the onset of the job, he said he's the project manager so he'll save me those fees... guess I should have heard the alarm bells then... Well too late now. Hopefully I'll emerge unscathed

 

[spursfan323]

have you paid for that proportion of the work that has been properly completed?

Well,

I have withheld over and above the mere cost of the o/s works, as I am sure that holding that alone would not motivate him to finish off. As it is, it is hard enough to convince him to come back

 

[spursfan323]

I now see I was right to withhold over and above the cost of the o/s jobs...

He was meant to clear my loft of rubble and mess, lay down chipboard and install a hatch. His charge was £1,150:
Ladder & hatch 260.00
handle & rod 47.70
(i checked online price is 112 for ALL above items!)
Chipboards 380.00
Labour 2 workers 2 days 460
which you may agree is highly priced.

I now discover there is still a load of old planks and wood in the loft that has not yet been cleared!

 

[studips]

I now see I was right to withhold over and above the cost of the o/s jobs...

Labour 2 workers 2 days 460
which you may agree is highly priced.

I now discover there is still a load of old planks and wood in the loft that has not yet been cleared!

he's billing labour at £115 a day? very cheap - has he loaded the materials to make the labout look cheaper?

has he built in a charge for waste disposal? that is a killer cost now...

 

[ajstoneservices]

Having now read this thread along with your other one here //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=235912&highlight=

Something stinks

 

[Blagard]

spursfan323
Having read through the thread I get the impression you are really looking for some moral support for the situation you have put yourself into.

Unless you and the builder are prepared to get professional help to resolve the situation I suspect the builder will eventually walk off and write off any money outstanding because it will cost him more to "finish" with a risk that perhaps he still won't get paid what is outstanding anyway. "Trust" has probably gone out the window on both sides.

I doubt either of you would sue, because between you, you have made such a mess of it, the only winner in that would be the solicitors!

If you genuinely believe you have been hard done by, but don't want to throw good money after bad, you could consider reporting him to trading standards.

 

[jeds]

I don't want to harp on about this but there should be a law against inexperienced people managing building works over £20k. It's not just the builders. Many of the disputes I have been involved in the clients are the worse offenders.

Anyway. You must take some positive steps to get this sorted and move on. Give the builder a list of outstanding items and a reasonable timescale to get them sorted. Tell him you will pay him in full when the works are done and finished to a satisfactory standard. Tell him if he does not complete the works you will use the money to pay another builder to do so.

PS. having the builder employ the structural engineer was a very bad move. If anything goes wrong you will have no claim on the engineer as you didn't employ him and have no contract with him.

 

[spursfan323]

Some people seem to be getting a little too agitated here.
Thanks to all who posted nonetheless.

Give the builder a list of outstanding items and a reasonable timescale to get them sorted. Tell him you will pay him in full when the works are done and finished to a satisfactory standard. Tell him if he does not complete the works you will use the money to pay another builder to do so.

Thankfully things have taken a turn for the better for both myself and the contractor. A firm but polite letter was sent, as advised above. He has made some progress on various o/s parts of the job and while we speak much less than before it is polite and positive. Looks like we may finish on a happier note than initially feared.