Carbon monoxide alarm from gas fire

[Jackrae]

With a gas pressure of anywhere between 19 and 21mB (within specification) the "calibrated flame" will be anything but.
The chances are that the orifice will collect debris and so effectively reduce in size, rather than erode to an increase in size. When one services a 'hole' you can only make it bigger
As has already been mentioned it is a simple go-nogo device and manufacturers hiding behind a "must change" policy is taking the **** (unless someone can actually justify it with case examples). What about the thermocouple, the solenoid in the gas valve and the actual valve trip spring itself - why aren't these exclusion items as well.

 

[bernardgreen]

and so effectively reduce in size,

smaller hole, smaller pilot flame, less output from thermo-couple hence fail safe

'hole' you can only make it bigger

larger hole, larger pilot flame, more output from thermo-couple hence it might fail to detect low oxygen content, fail unsafe

What about the thermocouple

doesn't that get replaced as part of the assembly ( ignitor electrode, pilot jet and thermo-couple ) that has to be replaced.

the solenoid in the gas valve

more likely to become less sensistive than to become more sensitive. hence fail safe.

actual valve trip spring itself

this is a possibility but it is inside the gas valve and thus it is protected from adverse treatment unlike the pilot jet and thermo-couple which are inside the combustion chamber

 

[Agile]

With a gas pressure of anywhere between 19 and 21mB (within specification) the "calibrated flame" will be anything but.
The chances are that the orifice will collect debris and so effectively reduce in size, rather than erode to an increase in size. When one services a 'hole' you can only make it bigger

Actually the gas pressure at the fire can within specification be anywhere between 18 mbar and 23 mbar,

That is because up to 1.0 mbar of pressure loss is allowable in the pipework after the meter.

Tony

 

[gasmanstu72]

+1 on the pilot/warranty.

O.P., did the grid engineer positively confirm the presence of CO in the room?

didnt know n/ grid had anything to check for co ,

i worked for Transco a good few years back, we were told just to isolate any appliances suspected of spilling CO at class them as ID "to be on the safe side"
it could've changed right enough but if i was called out i would cut it off, make it safe and inform the user to get it checked. especially if it's a late call out

 

[Agile]

As far as I am aware that is still the situation.

Not only to be safe but because the staff are not necessarily trained and equipped to do CO investigations.

 

[Cgas]

OP, don't persecute the installer instantly, a fire can pass all tests, come the next day the flue can fail (cold day for example) and spill. A service is only a representation of how the fire should work all year but on that day.

For example I serviced a fire during the summer months, passed with flying colours, I had a phone call off the bloke saying slider was causing him issues as it was tight. I called back one very cold morning on my way to another job, adjusted the lever and spill checked the fire, which then failed even after being warmed up.

 

[ianmcd]

this is a possibility but it is inside the gas valve and thus it is protected from adverse treatment unlike the pilot jet and thermo-couple which are inside the combustion chamber

Dear Bernardgreen google ,an oxypilot inside a combustion chamber ?????? dear oh dear oh dear and people read the shoite that you post

 

[bernardgreen]

Dear Bernardgreen google ,an oxypilot inside a combustion chamber ??????

Perhaps I should have said combustion area ( as a gas fire does not have a combustion chamber as such ) but the comment is still valid. The oxypilpt assembly has to be in the combustion area other wise the pilot flame could not ignite the gas coming out of the main burner jets.

 

[dilalio]

Perhaps I should have said combustion area

Perhaps you should have said (or written) "nothing"!

 

[danlightbulb]

Just a small update as didn't get to my parents house today. The engineer who Flaval appointed said that the flue is unsuitable for the type of fire. Original installer obviously never advised this previously.

 

[gas112]

what fire what flue ?

 

[danlightbulb]

Hi guys sorry for delay I've been waiting to get more information.

The fire is a Flaval Windsor Plus inset gas fire.

The flue is a pre fabricated flue. The house was built in 1983 so we think the standard at that time was BS1289.

The situation so far is as follows.

The fire was disconnected by national grid citing leakage and evidence of leakage by noticeable discolouration around the top of the fire.

They called Flaval who said about the warranty not being valid because of the oxypilot aasembly not being replaced as stipulated. However they sent in a guy who has told them the fire is not suitable for the flue. The original installer never mentioned this and was the one who supplied and fitted the fire. The Flaval guy wouldn't do any further work on it.

They got another guy in who my dad said didn't even know how to take the fire off the wall properly. Apparently he was gas safe registered although the paperwork provided was poor. He did check the flue suction and said it was OK.

They then got the original installer back. He refitted the fire entirely, did CO readings and checked the flue suction. He still has not said the flue is not suitable and the CO readings are a max of 15ppm after an hour or so of testing. My dad still isn't happy though, as despite refitting the fire the base of it still appears loose in the wall.

The manual says that the flue should conform to BS 715 / BS EN 1856-2.

It also talks about a spigot restrictor baffle which should be removed if fitted to a pre fabricated flue, although my dad says the installer today didn't know how to remove this so didn't.

That's it. They are at a loss I think and don't know who to trust who has any competence in the matter. The fire as it stands is operational again having been recommissioned by the original installer today.

 

[gas112]

Really !!!! your saying its still not fitted securely and isnt suitable for flue he didnt know the basics of how to remove a restrictor or by sounds of it doesnt know if its actually fitted and your allowing your parents to use it . is this for real

 

[polesapart]

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/h...tted/nominate-your-appliances-for-inspection/

 

[Steelmasons]

Really !!!! your saying its still not fitted securely and isnt suitable for flue he didnt know the basics of how to remove a restrictor or by sounds of it doesnt know if its actually fitted and your allowing your parents to use it . is this for real

Hey 112 , this place reminds me of clown town..