Ceiling Light Wiring Block Safe?

[333rocky333]

Theres likely nothing there thats hard enough to need a drill, your first pic shows one screw in and i assume what your saying is you cannot spin the metal bar to align with the 2nd hole due to the wires in the way.
You maybe able to nibble out a bit of the ceiling with an old screw driver enough to push the wires over.
Its likely the 2 existing holes are in a wooden joist so likely best to try and use them if possible

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It's already lined up with a hole...

 

[333rocky333]

Was that not the old fitting, since then he posted

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Haha.

From looking at the time I can see that when he posted it I was already doing this reply, which took a bit of time because of the image work involved, and when I posted it it pushed his reply up, and I never even knew it was there.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

a 4 way box, which incidentally is what came with the light fitting

And which you aren't using!

So the new light came with the right connector strip, and you decided to not use that, but to keep the old wrong one plus the old wrong loose flappy bit, and now you've got this:

which, surprise surprise, won't fit into the light which was designed to take the 4-way strip you decided not to use.

I despair, I really do.

 

[Klang180]

And which you aren't using!

So the new light came with the right connector strip, and you decided to not use that, but to keep the old wrong one plus the old wrong loose flappy bit, and now you've got this:

View attachment 134517

which, surprise surprise, won't fit into the light which was designed to take the 4-way strip you decided not to use.

I despair, I really do.

Thanks for the advice on this but no need to despair! The first picture is what was left when i took the old fitting off. I didn't want to mess around with a load of wires with tape around them and it was only when you mentioned the 4 connector box did i realise i'd seen that in the light fitting when i got it all out. It is quite common, as i am sure you are aware that, that fittings come with an assortment of stuff you either don't need or already have installed and i simply didn't see it was a 4 rather than a 3 as I am not at all experienced with electrics.

The reason the 3 strip won't work is not because of the taped up connector box but rather because the old light didn't have a central cluster where the wires came up so they were able to mount the connector smack bang in teh centre of the bracket and it didn't get in the way. The issue I have is that 4 connector or not the wires feeding that are so tight that I cannot move this connector box out of the way of the centre wire mount which is why i am asking about moving the bracket. FYI the first bracket will not fit the new light, which is a shame and why you will see in the second picture a modification to the bracket to make it fit the existing drill holes. I will try and put all of the wires in a 4 connector box but i am almost 100% certain there just isn't enough room for the connector and the central mould and that the bracket needs to be put to the left a little so that the connector can fit to the side of the wire mount.

Anyway, through all the advice i have received on here I think i am better equipped to do the job and will post the resolution when it arrives.

Thanks to you and others for all of your help.

 

[333rocky333]

Just cut them into 3 individual blocks and splay them out and then lay them sideways

 

[Klang180]

Just cut them into 3 individual blocks and splay them out and then lay them sideways

Oh my why didn't i think of that? That does the trick.

I have another issue now. I carefully photo'd how the old light was installed (picture 1 - black light in shot) and connected the new one in the same exact way (photo 2 - wires and mount only). However looking closely at the wires it does look like the wire that goes into the neutral is red whereas the one that goes into the brown switch wires. This would be the wrong way around surely but it is how the (working) light was installed previously. Are the wires just incorrectly labelled or taped (the "red" wire is actually a black wire with some red tape on) and if so how did it work beforehand?

Thanks so much.

Kind regards

 

[EFLImpudence]

Oh my why didn't i think of that?

I know.

However looking closely at the wires it does look like the wire that goes into the neutral is red

No, the wire that goes into the neutrals is brown.

whereas the one that goes into the brown switch wires.

No.

This would be the wrong way around surely but it is how the (working) light was installed previously. Are the wires just incorrectly labelled or taped (the "red" wire is actually a black wire with some red tape on) and if so how did it work beforehand?

The wires don't know what colour they are.
They are coloured for our benefit so that we can tell which is which. If you ignore which is which and connect them the wrong way round how do you think they will react.


Swap the blue and brown, then.




Study -
https://www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:Lighting-Circuit-layouts

 

[Klang180]

I know.


No, the wire that goes into the neutrals is brown.

No.


The wires don't know what colour they are.
They are coloured for our benefit so that we can tell which is which. If you ignore which is which and connect them the wrong way round how do you think they will react.


Swap the blue and brown, then.




Study -
https://www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:Lighting-Circuit-layouts

Thanks for your reply and the link. I have looked at this diagram in detail and this is why i am questioning how they had it connected. I understand that the wiring was put there for the benefit of the next person wiring and that you don't want to connect them the wrong way around but that is exactly how the lights appear to have been connected up before and they worked! You say the wires that the neutrals (from the light) are plugged into is brown but it is red. Maybe the picture isn't very clear but I can see and i remember that the brown wires from the light went into are black (2 of them btw). How can they have connected up a light where the neutrals connect to a wire that is red and it still work. It appears they are the wrong way around!

My worry is that the wiring has been miss labelled if the old light appears to have worked on the "wrong" wiring.

 

[EFLImpudence]

and that you don't want to connect them the wrong way around but that is exactly how the lights appear to have been connected up before and they worked! How is it possible it worked fine when they appear to be connected incorrectly?

Lamps(bulbs) don't have a line(live) and neutral side. They just have two connections to which you connect the line and neutral (or positive and negative in your car with direct current). It doesn't matter which way round they are connected (or what colour they are).

Have you never played with a battery, bulb and piece of wire?

 

[Klang180]

Lamps(bulbs) don't have a line(live) and neutral side. They just have two connections to which you connect the line and neutral (or positive and negative in your car with direct current). It doesn't matter which way round they are connected (or what colour they are).

Have you never played with a battery, bulb and piece of wire?

You won't believe me but I had actually come to this realisation myself. I used to love tinkering with batteries and circuits and things like that but for some reason once it was mains electricity I didn't think the same principles applied. I think it might have been a fear of the consequences of AC compared to DC that made me over-reverential. In any case thank you for your guidance it has been useful even if it has been slightly laborious for you.

 

[333rocky333]

Lamps(bulbs) don't have a line(live) and neutral side.

There is a preferred way for connecting Screw in lamps though isn't there

 

[JohnW2]

There is a preferred way for connecting Screw in lamps though isn't there

Not just 'preferred' - actually required by reg 559.5.1.106

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Well, there is - but the OP couldn't understand why it worked the wrong way round.