Ceiling light

[Amateur diyer]

Hi all,
This is probably one of the most annoying requests ever but just want some advice with regards to fitting a new light fixture. I unscrewed my plastic rose pendant when I moved into my new build, and took a photo ready to fit my new metal light fitting. Fast forward three months and I loosened off the wires ready to put up a new metal fitting and realised I must have deleted the photo of the setup...doh....feel so stupid. It looks relatively obvious. I have a terminal block with 3 connections in the light fitting, I do have a spare terminal block. I'm not 100% on which is the switch live from the ceiling....god damn it. The photo shows a bit of the confusion, two cables, each with an earth that goes into one (never seen an earth like this). Then I have 3 brown but all of slightly different brown colour! One has a black wire with brown sleeve so will assume thats the switch live but what's the grey with blue sleeve? Never seen that before. With my 3 connections in my light fitting I will assume I must use another terminal block to put the lives together? Am I thinking correctly? I am a little worried because when I took the fitting down the fuse tripped and yet the downstairs lighting circuit was off. I only think the earth and neutral wires touched...enough phantom voltage to trip the switch?! Any advice on what goes where would be appreciated.

 

[chivers67]

The Grey with the Blue should be a Neutral, EFLI will be along he's a whizz with lighting. Is there another light in the Circuit or two switches though

 

[Amateur diyer]

Hi, yes there are two lights in the room controlled by one panel, two switches. With this one disconnected the other light fitting does not work so I have assumed end of loop.

 

[rsgaz]

Can you see the other end of the twin and earth cable inside the other ceiling rose?
And, does the triple and earth cable go to the the switch? Photo of the back of the switch(s)?

 

[Amateur diyer]

I fitted another light to the other ceiling fitting, simply live, neutral and earth so easy job. I can't get a picture of the switch at the moment though so I can't be sure the triple goes back to the switch.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I have a terminal block with 3 connections in the light fitting, I do have a spare terminal block.

Good. You will need it.

I'm not 100% on which is the switch live from the ceiling.The photo shows a bit of the confusion, two cables, each with an earth that goes into one (never seen an earth like this).

All earth wires should be joined together so not exactly sure what you mean.

Then I have 3 brown but all of slightly different brown colour!

Well, two browns and a black with brown sleeve.

One has a black wire with brown sleeve so will assume thats the switch live

Very likely - one of them.

but what's the grey with blue sleeve?

The blue sleeve signifies Neutral - if correct.

Never seen that before. With my 3 connections in my light fitting I will assume I must use another terminal block to put the lives together?

They only give you the minimum.
However it does not look like a loop at ceiling arrangement so presumably is loop at switch.

Am I thinking correctly? I am a little worried because when I took the fitting down the fuse tripped and yet the downstairs lighting circuit was off. I only think the earth and neutral wires touched...enough phantom voltage to trip the switch?

That will be an RCD and they do trip if you touch N & E.

Hi, yes there are two lights in the room controlled by one panel, two switches. With this one disconnected the other light fitting does not work so I have assumed end of loop.

It looks pretty obvious, but we had better wait for picture of the switch wiring first.

 

[EFLImpudence]

If the switch is wired like this then connect the rest as shown.
If not, show picture of the wiring.

 

[Amateur diyer]

Hi all. Thank you for your replies. Here is the switch photos as best as I can take them.

 

[EFLImpudence]

So, do you think it is the same as my diagram?

You should try and learn how it works so it makes sense - rather than just be told which wire to connect where.

Can you see how it works from my diagram?

 

[Amateur diyer]

So, do you think it is the same as my diagram?

You should try and learn how it works so it makes sense - rather than just be told which wire to connect where.

Can you see how it works from my diagram?

Thank you for your reply. I understand in principle, and i understand your diagram to some extent with regards to the switch live wire. I won't lie, I am still not 100% so did actually contact a spark to physically show me. I've never been taught this stuff, never had the opportunity to teach myself but am keen to learn so I know for the future. Just not willing to try the "trial and error" method. It'll cost me more but hoping the Spark doesn't mind talking me through it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I understand in principle, and i understand your diagram to some extent with regards to the switch live wire. I won't lie, I am still not 100% so did actually contact a spark to physically show me.

Ok.

I've never been taught this stuff, never had the opportunity to teach myself but am keen to learn so I know for the future. Just not willing to try the "trial and error" method. It'll cost me more but hoping the Spark doesn't mind talking me through it.

Very wise.

Just ask anything you want to know.

Have a read here. From Flameport:
https://www.flameport.com/electric/index.cs4

Does this help?
In your picture, the LIVE SUPPLY and LIVE TO NEXT SWITCH (i.e. next room) are both in one switch with the link wire to the other switch but it makes no difference.

 

[Amateur diyer]

Hi, thanks for people's help. Had an electrician come and his visit taught me two things. One, is that I am probably more than competent to do the job myself, and all I was lacking was confidence. Two, is that a flashy website does not prove an electrician's competence.
He told me he would do the job for £40 which despite being daylight robbery on normal cases I thought it would be a cheap tutorial for me. All he had to do was connect the wires. I asked him if the connector blocks needed to be in a choc box...either I had the terminology wrong or he didn't know what I was on about-never heard of a choc box. Anyway, he struggled to connect the wires to the fitting terminal block then promptly dropped the fitting smashing one of the glass outer domes. Lucky I had a spare, but this was not a good start. He then stuffed (and I literally mean STUFFED) the wires into the light fitting rose part-no insulation tape...I could see plenty of copper wire still...he promptly turned the electric back on, and the light did as I expected and tripped the switch...he was questioning why and I pointed out the live wire was probably making contact with the metal fitting itself. Anyway, opening up, insulation tape on, very poor job of it, and then stuffed right in with brute force and after a third attempt the thing eventually worked. I reluctantly gave him my £40 and sent him on his way. I intend to take it apart and redo it myself, making the hole in the ceiling bigger possibly, to use a choc box, or or take off the stock terminal connector and use a standard one which is smaller and should fit better in the fitting itself. The bits of tape he used were pathetic, pretty sure the wires will be under strain....and we're still picking small pieces of glass up! So lesson learned! He taught me nothing really, couldn't answer why the fuse tripped when the downstairs circuit was off either, at least I was correct in where I thought the wires should be connected...

 

[EFLImpudence]

These are good - you might need another piece of cable from it to the new light if not long enough.
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ501.html

I did do another diagram but see I forgot to send it.

Anyway - was it right?

 

[Amateur diyer]

These are good - you might need another piece of cable from it to the new light if not long enough.
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ501.html

I did do another diagram but see I forgot to send it.

Anyway - was it right?

View attachment 166530

Hi, yes that looks correct. Not rocket science but I was still unsure and shaken by the tripping of the fuse when earth and neutral touched...which my neighbour had exactly the same...both of us had our downstairs circuit off but I guess if there was enough residual voltage in it could trip a 5amp fuse. Failing that I'll get Miller homes in to ensure its wired correctly in the first place! Yes that junction box is what I was thinking, seems safe enough to be above the ceiling, or I could go with wago connectors which I've heard are really reliable....

 

[EFLImpudence]

Touching Neutral and Earth will trip an RCD/RCBO but not an MCB and definitely not a fuse so not sure what happened.

Yes Wagos are fine but they must be in an enclosure - Wago Box.